The Algona Republican from Algona, Iowa on July 24, 1895 · Page 7
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The Algona Republican from Algona, Iowa · Page 7

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Algona, Iowa
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Wednesday, July 24, 1895
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DELATION (First Day df the Hafvey*Horr fWO CHAMPIONS JOIN tHE ISSUES. Ofenernl Position* of the Dlspntfthts Statfed-'-fiAttJe Rugf* Around the tlnlt of fftliie friMnelpatly—Hnrtey Contends ftiat S«l*et Was the Favoietl Mfctal In lt»2 and ttorr that the tcllot* Dollai- Wa* Alto it Standard of Viilue. [Copyright, 1393, by Azel F. Hatch.] The first of the series of debates between Hon. R. O. Horr and W. H. Harver, Esq., author of "Coin's Financial School," began In the Illinois clubhouse at 2 p. m. (the chamber that had been prepared for the occasion w$e full to Its utmost capacity of interested listeners. When the gathering came to order Dr. Thomas.Pres- ident of the Illinois Club, welcomed the guests of the club In a brief address and presented the judges of the discussion,Hon. money leaders and against fhe ptopetty- Ownefs and febofers. 8. That the gold unit as the measure of values, with no concurrent coinage of another metal to assist It In performing the functions of primary money, has caused the fall In prices as compared with 1872, when the world's prices of property werl measured In the money mass of both metals. That all prices of property and labor have declined accordingly as compared with 1872, except when held up relatively combines and trusts, or special reasons affecting a particular service or property. That the average price of all production, except gold, will show this decline in adjusting itself to the gold standard. And that when we include In labor the unemployed and the time lost by those employed there is a fall In wages of one-half as compared with 1872. That labor is adjusting Itself to the gold standard measurement of values. That the gold standard is confiscating the property of the people, and da- prives labor of work. 9. That the decline in prices cover- Ing a period of twenty-two years hay as a rule nAde all classes of productive, mercantile and manufacturing business un- such (Ap- H. J. Miller and Judge W. A. Vincent. Judge Miller then stated the conditions Of the debate (which have been widely published), tho principal feature of the same being that the talks will be a "running fight," as it were. The Judge then Introduced Hon. R. G. Horr, who opened the debate. Mr. Horr proceeded to make a brief statement defining the position he proposed to occupy In the debate. He said In part that "the foundation of the discussion Upon which we are about to enter is a small book published by Mr. Harvey, my opponent, and entitled 'Coin's Financial School. 1 The real aim and object of that book Is to convince the people of the United States that this government alone should at once enter upon the free and unlimited coinage of silver upon the old^ratio of 16 to 1. The wisdom of such a course I dispute. Mr. Harvey will still maintain the affirmative of that issue. I will state in the outset that from the beginning to the end of the book there is hardly a proposition made to which I give my consent. I propose to controvert many things which are stated as facts, and shall attempt to prove that the entire theory set forth by its author, if adopted by the people of this country, would lead only to business disaster and financial ruin. I do not now remember ever to have examined a book carefully In which I found so few statements that I consider worthy of belief ,and I certainly never saw so many absolute errors crammed Into so few pages." (Laughter.) Mr. Horr said he did not oppose bimetallism, but believed in the use of both metals to the fullest extent that could safely be done; that in all large transactions gold was the best to use, and that in all transactions between nations the two metals should be used only at their commercial value. He was a believer In an International agreement on a ratio, and was "very clear in my idea that until some such arrangement shall have been made It would be simply suicide for this nation to adopt a system of free coinage of sliver upon the old ratio, a ratio which all the civilized nations of the world have long since discarded. I do not believe that any one government can fix the value upon any two metals and name a ratio which will be accepted by the people of the world or of the country itself.so that the two metals will be .used side by side. * * * I do . not believe that silver has been demonetized anywhere in the ' world.' I believe . that the law of 1873, which Mr. Harvey's book denounces as a 'crime,' was honestly conceived, openly advocated and passed by the American Congress after full deliberation, and because the people at that time who held seats in the American Congress believed that such a law ought to be enacted. * * * I believe if our nation should adopt the course advocated in this book it would seriously injure the entire wage-earners of the United States. I shall deny most emphatically that the great majority of the people of this country are in debt, and shall insist that three-fourths of the American people are creditors and not debtors. . . • I will state still further that if this book ibout which we are going to debate is true :hen I am all wrong. (Laughter.) It seems to me to be devoid of business sense !rom beginning to end, and I shall enter apon the work of attempting to prove that and hope to be able to do in language that shall be so plain and explicit that my fellow cilzens will be satisfied that I have iccomplished my task." Mr. Harvey: I am here to defend the [acts and principles in "Coin's Financial School." I expect to make good in this lebate the following propositions: 1, That silver and gold are the money of the Constitution. That the silver dollar was the unit of value in our coinage system in this country from 1792 to 1873, Just is the yard stock was the measure of length. That gold was measured in this silver unit, and concurrent coinage given to it (gold). That silver and gold combined constituted the legal standard of iralue in this country till 1873. Silver measured gold; the two together measured ail jtber property, 2, That the act of 1873 was surreptitiously passed, • 3, That during the period 1792 to 1873 the mints were opened to thesunlimlted coinage of both metals into primary or re- lemptlon money, and that both were treated as such. That during that period people had a right to have either metal coined Into full legal tender money and that the option was with the debtor to pay in coins of either metal. 4, That this bimetallic systca made an unlimited demand, for both metals to be seined into money, Increased tbe demand tor these metals, and BO long a? this law, lutborlzlng any one to coin 371H Brains of illver and 23 2-10 grains of gold Into a dol- ,ar, there was no one willing to tsell either •pr less than a dollar- 5, That the option to pay in either metal aused the cheaper of the two metals tP be ised and transferred, tbe demand from the Isarer tp the cheaper metal and restored, its relative commercial value, We are •ailed silver men because we are defending •be metal that bas been d,empnetized, but 'fte are nevertheless for both gold and sll- ' 6 That H Is to the interest of tbe United, states to act independently in the remon« ?ti?atipn of silver at the ratio to gold oil 16 •$ i without waiting for the action of any itber nation. |, Wat monometallism consists, is the use of the dearer of the ^ya metals to tbe exclusion of the other as primary pr re- fr. hat monometallism to profitable, that a falling market covering a long period destroys the prospective profits based on cost of purchase and production, and a majority of our most astute business men cannot avoid failure or loss of capital under these conditions. , 10. That It has worked a hardship and Injury to debtors, who, unconscious of the causes that continuously reduced the prices of their property, have contracted debts during these twenty-wo years. That this fall in prices causes a sacrifice of property to purchase the dollars with which to liquidate these debts. That this has caused the renewal of debts; the contraction of new debts to pay old debts and an enlarged volume of all debts. That this unjustly takes from a debtor his property and emphasizes the Importance of a stable money measurement ofvalue. 11. That in the end, none is benefited by a fall in prices but the money-lender, the owner of money and securities payable in money-fixed Incomes. , 12. That the foregoing facts and conditions produced by a change In our money measurement of values will Impoverish the masses of the people and points by reason of the disturbances It will produce to the overthrow of the republic. That the free coinage of both metals by this government in the ratio of 16 to 1 will restre prosperity to this nation. Mr. Horr—Before entering upon the discussion proper I desire to call the attention of my opponent to the manner In which this book Is written. Mr. Harvey—The "School Is allegorical; It marshals the opinions of the two sides of this controversy. * * * It puts in the mouths of the gold standard advocates their well-known views fairly stated with which the country had been flooded up to the time the "School" was written. « * * The fact that a little boy in knee pants was the Instructor of the men was supposed to be sufficient to fix the story as allegorical. (Mr. Harvey illustrated by referring to Aesop's Fables, Robinson Crusoe and other books which though not actual fact taught great lessons. He also referred to Shakespeare and to poetry In general, and concluded as follows: "If it is charged that actual characters are used in the book while similar books use fictitious characters, the answer is that the well-known utterances and opinions of these men are used and the further answer that Shakespeare used actual characters." Mr. Horr—I desire to say that to. me the. excuse is a very lame one. I am somewhat familiar with fiction, have heard of Shakespeare before, but nowhere In the history of all literature can you find another instance of a man selecting his Immediate neighbors and putting words Into their mouths which they never uttered and then publishing it to the world. * * * He says that he put into their mouths the words they themselves would have uttered. I have had that done for me so many times in my life that I know what it means. I never yet had a fellow state what I would say if I had a chance who got anywhere near what I wanted to say myself. * * * But now I come to the motto of the book, which is this: "I thank thee.O Father.Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes." I •would like my friend to tell me why he used that motto. Does he desire to intimate that the kind of finance which he teaches is something that babes will understand, but that people who know anything will never be able to comprehend? (Applause and laughter). Is that his idea? • * • Mr. Harvey—Mr. Horr misinterprets the meaning of that verse. The word "babes" Is intended to mean the pure of mind and unselfish. It Is in that sense that it is used in the Bible, and means that those pure of mind and unselfish can see clearly those things which the impure of mind and selfish cannot see or understand. » * * In carrying out tbe idea of an illustrated book, an illustrated preface was adopted to show the rise and decline of civilization concurrent with an increase and decrease in the volume of primary money. * * * I used only sufficient of the authority to establish the principle to be taught, and that space would permit. The authority used was the report of tho Monetary Commission appointed by Congress in 1876, reported in 1877 and pub- Ushed in 1878, The copy used had the date of its publication on the cover, and that date was given In accrediting the authority. I now read from the report the paragraph from which the abbreviated statement printed under picture In preface was made. It begins with the last two lines on page 49, and is as follows: "At the Christian era the metallic money of tbe Roman empire amounted to $1,800,000,000. By the end of the fifteenth century It bad shrunk to less than $200,000,000. During this period a most extraordinary and baleful change took place in the condition of the world. Population dwindled, and com' merce, arts, wealth, and freedom all disappeared.. The people were reduced by poverty and misery to the most degraded tpndition pf serfdom an4 slavery! Tbe dis- Jategratlon of society was almost complete, The conditions of life were so hard that individual selfishness was the only thing con* slstent with the instinct of self-preserve tiop, All public spirit, all generous emp- tionj, an the noble aspirations of man shriveled and ^appeared as the volume of m,o$ey shrunk ana. prices fell. "History reopr'ds no. such tra,n,8}tiPii aj> that frpw the Roman to'the. <?«* tgef. • Yarleus explanations, have, b-esft glyes pf tbjs. entire* flown pf the frajnewprlji pf society, }n ibf VQlunje of pjpn.ey which occtiffea fn otter eompanted and unfollowed by an£ mighty disasters." I now pass thft book toMr. Horr. plause.) Mr.Horr— Gentlemen, I desire to state that my friend has spent his whole time answering something that I never mentioned or said anything about. I mere}? called his attention to the use of the passage of Scripture which he has now fully explained by saying that the passage does not mean what it says. * * * My next quotation now I find still before you get to the body of the book. It is this: "All money Is a medium of exchange, but primary money only Is the measure of values." 1 would like to have him tell us in a word what he means by primary money. Mr. Harvey— The question asked is a part of the main argument In the book, and It would be out of place for me to answer this question now, and would disturb the logical arrangement of the argument as outlined by 0*n book. Mh Horr— I have not succeeded in getting very much Information. If I did not misunderstand him in his previous remarks when he laid down the positions he was going to occupy he for the first time in those remarks gave his definition of primary money. 1 submit to the reporters that he said "primary or redemption money" in the course of the explanation. If I am right then It Is redemption money which he refers to in this motto. If that Is what he means then I call his attention to the fact that the statement Itself Is not true. "All money is a medium of exchange." It is true that far. But primary money only or redemption money only Is not always the measure of value. We sometimes live and do business for years ano the measure of value that we use is not redemption money at all. I lived seventeen years from 1862 to 1879 and saw the business of this country for years all transacted In money that was not redemption money, but every dollar of it had yet to be redeemed. The greenbacks that we did buslnes" with in '62 to '79 depreclted in value and HARVEY AND HOUR, The Two Financial Experts Lock Horns Again. tAKE UP THE DEMONETIZAtlON ACt yet we used those promises as the measure of the values of this country. The measure of value isn't so abstruse as some people think. The measure of value in every country is the term that the people, by common use, come to understand as meaning a certain definite thing. * * * What is money? Every writer that I am familiar with admits that originally money was always some substance that possessed value; it must of necessity be so. You could not have a yard stick that did not have the length because the yard stick is to find out the length of goods. * • * When we wanted something to measure values with, hat Is, when the human family wanted something, they necessarily selected something that possessed some value. Almost every article in the world has, from time to time, been used as the measure of values. * * * Now gold and sliver finally came to be used as money simply because they were the best adapted for money uses of any substance that the world had ever discovered. * * * Gold and silver were not the first money. Originally copper was more universally used as money than either of these metals. Mr. Harvey—* * * I will now define "what Is money." Money is a medium exchange and a measure of value. * * * To understand the importance of money we must consider the conditions that would exist if we had no money. It would then be a matter of barter a.nd exchange— of one kind of property for another. Needing the wheat of your neighbor, you might offer him in exchange your horse, but not needing your horse he would refuse you his wheat. You would then have to continue looking for a man having wheat who wanted a horse. * * * Under these conditions, there being no money, commerce would be sluggish if It moved at all. There would be no' practical method for paying labor In the thousands of industries, including type-setting. Hence there would probably be no books or newspapers, and if published, no convenient way to pay for them. We thus see the necessity for money. (Mr. Harvey enlarged upon this point to some extent, and then said): We thus have three points of difference; first, as to what money should be made of; second, the quantity; third, the laws defining its use and intended to protect it from being diverted from the functions for which it is created. Under this last head comes the question whether all money should be issued by the government, or all or parts of it should be issued by private parties and corporations. The necessity for money, the fact that it is the organic fluid of society, should make it solely a creation of the government. (Applause.) It should become a fixed principle with us that the issuing of money is an act of sovereignty. Our monetary system should 'le fixed upon scientific principles by which every dollar Is as good as every other dollar. (Applause.) Mr. Horr—There Is quite a large portion of that essay that is true. It is true that money is tbe llfeblood of commerce and of business. It Isn't true that money can exist only when it is created by law. Money does not have to be made a legal tender to make it good money even. * * * Legal tender is used for the sake of ad- Justing disputed accounts. But legal tender laws, except in times of national calamity, are never needed to enforce thu circulation of good money. Now I don't dispute tbe fact that the government should regulate money, I am not for the purposes of this debate going to go extensively into tbe question of whether all currency should be supplied by the government or whether It should be done by corporations and regulated simply by government Jaws, Now we come to the first real question under debate, Mr- Hori 1 then went into the establishment of a c currency system for tbe country after Independence had been gained. He showed how the decimal system bad been adopted, and told what an amount of Discussion took place over the matter: His argument was to prove that "bimetallism" bad been established in 179?. and .that Harvey's contention was that silver mono- metallism was established at that time, Harvey contended that the law that established silver as the standard, and be quoted the Jaw of 1792, Albert 6allatin, Chief Justice Chase, the Cbipago Tribune, and finally Horr himself to prove his position. Horr said the intention was to establish bi« nietellism. The two contestants were still in the unit when tbe flrst^ay's debate Author of "Coin's f itinnclftl School" fce- clures It the Product of Fraud and Conspiracy, Which the New York Man Controverts—Some blvt-Mlou In the Debate lo Settle n Question of Cot-rect Quotation of a Statute. [C^ps-rijiiit 1891, by Azel F. Hatch.] The second day of the silver debate opened with Mr. Horr In possession of the floor. He Immediately referred to the historical statement read by Mr. Harvey the day before regarding the condition of the world from the beginning of the Christian era to 1530. He said: "Let the answer be given from good authority. Hallam's 'Middle Ages,' volume 2, page 555, In note says: 'M. Laber (Mem. de 1'Acad. des Inscript., Neuvelle Serle XIV 230) calculates the power of silver under Charlemagne compared with the present day to have been 11 to 1. it fell afterwards to 8 and continued to sink during the middle ages. The average of prices during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries was 6 to 1. The price of wheat from the eighth to the fifteenth century thus doubled and the valu of silver decreased to one-half, ac- cotSlng to Hallam and this renowned French authority. This Is the exact op- pjslto of the statement which Mr. Harvey makes without citing one leading historian nr economist or statistician past or present. "Let us turn to a third authority, one accepted by men the world over. I cite from Professor James B. Thorold Rogers, the political economist and historian. He tells us in his 'Economical Interpretation of History,' page 262, that from 1261 to 1400 the price of wheat per quarter averaged 5 shillings 10% pence, and in the next 140 years averaged 5 shillings 11% pen"e. The price of lead was In the first period 90 shillings 9% pence per fother, on au average, and in the latter 104 shll- 11CG 4Vi pence. A more marked advance occurred in the years 1500 to 1540, years uninfluenced by the silver treasures of America, which Adam Smith says did not affect prices In England before 1570. Rogers' 'Six Centuries of Work and Wages,' 343, says: 'Now it is clear that tended to estflMsn t#o meaStfffi ef value." He referred to the decision of Judge Vincent on the question submitted to him some time ago to decide a bet as to which was tho unit according to the law of 1792. The Judge's decision was that the unit was tbe dollar, to be expressed in both gold and stiver. Horr then said: "Now, I have before me a letter of Mr. Leach, who was for many years th director of the mint; a man whom I know wffll, and who Is considered authority on all the money matters in the halve* ttotiia serve thd penpte IfSttef* CMlf dollars until more silver bullion could D« obtained. This was the reason why otrtt about eight millions of the eight hundred and five millions of silver was coined into dollars." This was on page 10 of tho "School. Theii Horr quoted from page 10 "the table from Mulhall, the London statistician, in which you show silver was not scarce at that time. You Show it was With one exception the most plentiful that It had been page prices were rising, though slowly and moderately, during the first forty years of the sixteenth century. In the first decade' the money value of the principal necessaries of life, corn and wheat, were at the ratio generally speaking at which they stood for two centuries. In the last decade, 1530 to 15_10, they had risen by 20 to 40 per cent.' "Professor Rogers says: 'The fifteenth century and the early years of the sixteenth were the golden age of the artisan and the laborer.' In the 'Economic Interpretation of History,' page 34, Rogers says, In speaking of the status of laborers of 1495 it is 'considering the cheapness of the times exceeding liberal. At no time in English history have the earnings of laborers Interpreted by their purchasing power been so considerable as those which this act acknowledges.' At that time Rogers shows this purchasing power of wages was substantially 50 per cent higher than the average for the 280 years 1261 to 1540." Mr. Harvey—What year was that? ; Mr. Horr—That was in the fifteenth century, that was the time when you say everything was going to the bow-wows. Horr quoted other authorities in the same line of argument, and then Harvey took the floor. He said he read from the report of the Monetary Commission of 1876, Including the historical quotation Just referred to by Horr, "not for the purpose of entering into an argument on political economy of the years 1400 to 1500. but simply to show that all of my friends from New York and elsewhere who have accused me of forgery were wrong. Dr. Adam Smith, an able historian, whose work I put in Mr. Horr's hands yesterday, confirms all that there is in that monetary commission. Page 117 gives you the table of the rise of prices that contradicts everything that Mr. Horr has said here. The encyclopedias in your libraries will confirm that report of the monetary commission and contradict everything that Mr, Horr has said." Remarking further that he did not expect to be diverted to answer irrevelant matter, he proceeded to recapitulate the debate of Tuesday saying: "Thus far we have considered two questions, gold and silver as the money of the constitution and the unit of value in our monetary system fixed by the framers of the constitution, and what existed as our monetary unit from 1792 to 1873. The debate is of value thus far in eliminating the doubt that has existed on these two points in the minds of the people—a doubt that has been produced by misrepresentations made by those advocating the gold standard. A reading pf the debate thus far settles these two questions in favor of the book we are discussing. "Gold and silver have been honest money for centuries, and under free coinage and equal treatment they have been practically at par with tbe legal ratio fixed for their coinage; under these Jaws both were money in their own right, each having equal purchasing power and both adapted to use as money. Population and demand on the money market are growing every year, and there was no good reason for debasing one of these metals, diserlnv inatlng against it, and destroying the demand for It that gave to it its value in tbe market," Hprr expressed surprise that Harvey, "after taking so long a time yesterday to prove to the people of the United States that the year before the discovery of silver In the world silver money bad become so scarce that the people were on the verge of starvation, should now accuse me of trying to divert him from the regular worlj before us when it is the very work he him* pelf introduped." He then read from Prpf. Qeprge Gunton, author of "Wealth an.4 Prosperity," page 140. "that In 1496 wheat was five shillings and ftve pence ha'penny, J514 it was flve shillings an4 Jour pen.ee., If we taHe the average for the dec* United States. He takes precisely the same view that Judge Vincent took. He tells us, 'If, as Mr. Turck says, the silver dollar was the unit which measured the value of the gold coins from 1792 to 1873, what becomes of the act of January 18th, 1S37 (supplementary to the act of 1834, which changed the ratio In coinage to 15.98 to 1), in which act no reference whatever Is made to units, but in prescribing the silver coin says: "The dollar shall be the weight of 412% grains." Nothing about unit." And the gold coins, the weight for the eagle shall be 258 grains, and that for all sums whatever the eagle shall be legal tender of payment for ten dollars. The true reason that the gold dollar was reduced In weight in 1834 to conform to the new ratio rather than the silver dollar was that gold being undervalued by the ratio of 15 to 1, gold coins constituted no material part of our circulation.' " "Just as I stated last night exactly. 'The bulk of the circulation In 1834 consisted of silver coins, and it was easier practically to change the gold dollar than the silver dollar. Does not Mr. Turck perceive that this claim that the silver dollar was the unit of value Is Inconsistent with the bimetallic system? The bimetallic system presumes a unit of account, a unit of name or number to be represented in coinage by a given quantity of silver. If either is the sole measure the system is not bimetallic.' " (Horr .then quoted Knox, deputy comptroller of the currency, In the mint report for 1868-84, to the same effect, and said "this was written before this discussion on the subject of demonetizing silver at all, written by an expert upon this very subject, and again in the same report he states: 'The present laws consequently authorize both a gold dollar unit and a silver dollar unit, different from each other In intrinsic value.' That was the reason he proposed the law of 1873." Harvey said: "Yesterday Mr. Horr admitted that the silver dollar was the unit of value, and the rec:rd of yesterday shows that. Now in view of his attempt to try to twist something back Into the discussion by which we are to believe him as saying one thing yesterday and something else today, I leave him to such fate as tbe readers of this debate think is proper." Harvey said Horr was trying to discuss bimetallism before its time in the debate. That subject was in the second chapter of the book, and would be discussed at the proper time. He said he wanted to take up the subject of demonetization, as that was the agreed subject for the day. Horr denied his, but Harvey went on to discuss the act of 1873. He said: "To understand how silver could be demonetized in this republic the reader should understand that we had then paper money, and no silver or gold was in circulation, except in California. The conspiracy to demonetize silver originated in London. European financiers had discovered that the demonetiza- tion of silver by England had no effect on the commercial parity of the two metals at the ratio fixed by France. It was therefore current that In order to break the commercial parity and substantially depreciate silver all of the great governments would have to be Included In the legislation needed. A good deal of diplomacy, concealment and misrepresentation was practiced in securing the co-operation of politicians in Germany, France and the United States. "Following his trip to London and Paris Mr. Sherman introduced a bill In 1868 that was on its face intended to establish the gold standard. Senator Morgan of New York Jumped on it in the Finance Gomit- tee. Sherman saw that Morgan understood genuine bimetallism, and this bill died that day and was never heard of again. Senator Morgan's term of office expired In 1869, and the very next session another bill made its appearance. The bill this time went to a committee, in which the second attempt to leave out the silver dollar was again discovered, and it was inserted at the ratio of 15% to 1. To knock this dollar out surreptitiously at the last moment then became the plan of the conspirators." Here Horr interrupted to call Harvey's attention to page 9 of the "School," which says that about $100,000,000 in foreign silver had found its way into our circulation prior to 1860 and bad been made legal tender by an act of Congress, which act was quoted, Horr said there was not an act in the currency laws of the United States that made foreign coin legal tender, and thought that "Coin" had not fully quoted the law, leaving off the very part that restricted tbe legal tender quality of foreign coins. The law as quoted by Hprr made "all foreign coins named In the act legal tender If they come up to a certain standard, that la, if they have so much fine gold and so much fine silver in them, and if they are worth so much, then and not otherwise." This matter came up several times during the discussion, Horr Insisting on getting it right as he stated. Harvey explained by saying that all that was done, was to test the foreign coins to see what they were worth in our currency. Horr then referred to the law of 1857, which required the treasury to melt up all foreign coins and recoin them all, He bad another objection to the quotation in "Coin," It did not quote the whole Jaw, leaving out gold, which was mentioned in the first section. Harvey said be bad quoted the whole section, but Hprr said be bad not quoted tbe whole law, Harvey closed the subject for the session by say- Ing that be quoted section 7 correctly, what there, was in another section he did not care about. Resuming tbe subject of silver demone- Usatlpa Harvey said "the intention of the cpnspirators was to strike out secretly the single line providing for the silver dollar the sj?je of a French flve-frano piece, and. with the bill thus enrplle4 the mints wpulfl Jje clpseS by its terms tp silver, ex- at any one time during the experience of o? t&e w,or}d, Ttot It JB began John p. an4 William. Rockefeller are "en.tbu.§iastio bicyclists. ' a stable mosey IB. not baied on * ti i« ttw tatwit 91 ftlsv , of Jn&tttuUpmj k.ej>t even step asO, 4ltheu.gb M§s ^Yerne is n,o.w P14, be is % bfw4 " in which each of these years, occur, which is still better, we will find tbe re* gu.lt to be the same, The average prjce of wheat Irpw 1441 to 145Q was five shilling? W$ three pence an<J three farthings; 1491 1'« 1600 it was five shillings a»4 lartbiHfs, and, from WUTO J5?o it w a § j&Ullpxi W4 eight pfnee, three ftrtMR ' Be, said that this jbpwea "that stea<3Uy advancing instead a? yov i Plato- NP\V I py this* J <Wre to pall your jtb.e n^ttsf we were '_» cept the trade dollar. TP make the bill operative jn this respect when the standard silver 4Pllar plau.se was erase*} a section was Inserted in the latter part of the .-that there should be no opin $t the mints except these herejai provided, for, The trade 4QUar a he easily repealed er Uwitea purchase, cjauje, the government." Horr proceeded to sfty that if Harvey had turned to the mint reports for 1893, page 8S, he would have found that the director of the mint says: "No issue of silver dollars was made from the mint from 1S05 to 1836, the coinage- having been suspended by the direction of President Jefferson, owing to the fact— now mark—'that their bullion value being greater than their face value they were- purchased for export.' " In explaining his statement that silver was scarce when the coinage of the dollar was suspended, Harvey said that It was scarce in the United States, although abundant in the world. He then returned to silver demonetization In 1873, but gave Horr the floor. In taking up the subject Horr said he proposed to show "that no law has ever been passed by the American Congress which was freer from taint, which was more carefully examined,which was more completely and fully understood than tbe law of 1873. The statement which be read to you that, the scheme was concocted in London is a simple assertion upon which ho cannot produce one scintilla of respectable truth, not one word." "The law of 1873 had its origin, as all such laws have, in tho brains of experts. The question of coinage, mintage, Is a most intricate one; a complicated one, and usually it has been decided by a few men who have studied the problem laboriously. All the men who ever assumed to be able to discuss the matter intelligently (in the early days of the century) could be counted on tbe fingers of my two hands. At their head stood Hamilton, the Morrisses, Jefferson and Gallatin. And so complicated, was the question that no two of those patriots agreed about any one feature of the measure when they first commenced discussing it. In 1834 the law as to mintage was changed In a material manner for the first time; It was done by decreasing the amount of gold in the gold dollar. It was done because experience showed those people that the cheap dollar, which was silver, had driven the gold currency out ot the United States. "Several members of that Congress insisted that if the ratio was made 16 to 1; silver would leave the country and that we- would be doing business very soon upon: a gold basis and with gold currency only. But It was done, and, as those men predicted, silver ceased to be the masure of values in the United States. I don't say,. Mr. Harvy, 'ceased to be the legal measure.' Why? Simply because they could sell the silver dollar and get more gold dollars for a quantity of gold dollars than the face of the silver dollars called for. They changed the ratio then, and it was not changed again until perhaps 1853, when they passed a law providing for the. subsidiary coinage of sUver. This was done, Horr said, to prevent- people from melting the subsisting coin and selling it as bullion, thus getting:; more for it than could be obtained for it- as coin, as it was as good in weight and fineness as the silver dollar. To keep subsidiary coinage incirculation Congress re- sidiary coinage in circulation Congress re- Harvey here took up the talk and said^. , referring to Horr's statement that here?, , was no proof of the alleged demonetization-' <• conspiracy, that he once beard a lawyer 1 say that to "detect the criminal, look for the man that is benefited by the crime." England first demonetized silver. "London bankers initiated the Paris conference of 1867, at which Mr. John Sherman was present, therefore I have the right to say , the conspiracy originated In London." Referring to Horr's statement that the-: science of money was bard to understand,, Harvey said that was the argument of the- selfish money lender. He said: "You who study chemistry and can understand the- most difficult problems of science—chemistry and other sciences that would make'- a banker/s head dizzy to contemplate, you,"' we are told, cannot understand the simple proposition of money.that which you come into the use of every day." He quoted one member of Congress in 1873 as saying of the demonetization act that "the introduction of this bill at the present time either • means a trick or is a farce worthy of being; caricatured by Thomas Nast." This closed the debate, and half an hour or so was spent In replying to questions, from the uudience. Among those asked was one by B. Guim of Kansas City, whether, during the period from the time Jefferson closed the mints.- to the coinage of the sliver dollar in!840— 34 years—there was free and unlimited coinage of silver. Harvey said: "Mr. Jefffferson did not close the mints, that could only be done toy an act of Csngress. Mr. Jefferson directed the mint directors to coin the silver that. came, at the option of the people, in flfty- 'cent pieces and less. You need not coin a single unit, and yet by law tbe 371% grains of sliver could be the unit of valu* 1 regulating all other coins, all compared to it in legal and commercial ratio, The act. 1873 made tbe gold dollar tbe unit, and. now, by the act of September 15, 1889, It te,' unlawful to coin a gold dollar. So that, we now have a unit of 23 2-10 grains of", gold, and Congress has said that the mints. A question by James Baljinger was?, shall not coin any of them." "Why have I had so little silver or gpl# since the passage of the act of 1873 ?"" It- was to both Horr and Harvey, Hprr he couldn't tell unless he was bow Bellinger had been behaving that time. Harvey said: "Because have been on a gold standard,'' Mr. Motsmyer of Shoals, Jnd,, a^k§4 ,, . the debtor previous to }873 bad i^gt, tbf!^ right to pay bis debts in the cheaper m,e> ?i s al. The reply was from Horr that It v 5 perfectly proper and natural to PP It is pot generally fcnpwn that Quay pf Pennsylvania IB an French scholar. He ma's, the readily as be does English, the latest novels pubHsbeqt guage from, his bqc" authors, to'tl acquaintance. '»*• '£$ . |h.ps,e who feftyp tqta fij gets ' Hut Kin is tbe first

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