The Capital Times from Madison, Wisconsin • 1

Lucey may very well return to run another day By MATT POMMER Of The Capital Times Staff Gov. Patrick Lucey may be heading for Mexico, but he made it clear in an exclusive Capital Times interview Wednesday that this doesn't mean he will never return and possibly run for statewide office again. "I wouldn't foreclose that possibility. There's no need for Pat Lucey to close the door on elective politics," the governor said in the interview which will be published in The Capital Times' special Monday Edition on June 13. Lucey, who is resigning to become ambassador to Mexico, had been asked if he ruled out any future election on a statewide basis such as for U.S.

senator. In the far-ranging interview, Lucey refused to take sides in the apparent upcoming gubernatorial 1978 primary between Martin Schreiber, who will be acting governor, and David Carley, now president of the Medical College of Wisconsin. Lucey said Schreiber would have all the advantages of incumbency but called Carley a "very worthy opponent." A tough Schreiber-Carley primary won't hurt the Democractic party's chances in 1978, he added. adopted then "with ease." Rates in lower categories might be able to be reduced, he suggested. Teacher organizations that oppose his elementary and secondary assessment ideas are working against their "own self-interest." His wife Jean would continue to reflect "her own personality and thinking" when the Luceys go to Mexico City.

Lucey also said he was firmly committed to seeking a third four-year term as governor after he was passed over by President Carter for slots in the Cabinet. He said he even rejected an overture to consider an embassy role. But he changed his mind when Carter and Vice President Walter Mondale urged him to accept the Mexico City slot, he said. Lucey said he was looking forward more to the campaign for re-election than to serving a third four-year term. The governor said virtually everyone would have considered him a "lame duck" governor as soon as he took the oath of cffice for the third time.

He added that he never wanted to be a "lame duck." Lucey said he had been serious when he told friends he would not have run for a second term in 1974 if the Legislature had enacted more of his progrgam during the first four years. The state of Wisconsin, like much of the nation, has turned Democratic in the last few years, Lucey said. The Republican party won't be a force in Wisconsin if it follows the "blind negativism of John Shabaz," the minority leader in the Assembly, he said. "I like John right where he is," laughed Lucey. Discussing the veterans department controversy involved in the firing of Moses, Lucey said he had called three board members after his trip to China to be briefed on the status of the department.

The governor also recalled that he had telephoned Moses "the day after we beat him in the Legislature." But Moses refused to "read the results" of the legislative action that ended his "indefinite" or virtual lifetime appointment in the post of veterans secretary, Lucey indicated. The legislative action made Moses serve at the pleasure of the veterans board. Despite that shift Moses caused "one confrontation after another," according to Lucey. "I was amazed that the board allowed the resignation (of Moses) to lie there," Lucey said. On other issues the governor said: He was "amazed" that the Board on Veterans Affairs did not accept John Moses' resignation when he offered it.

The board later fired Moses after he took back the resignation. Administration Secretary Robert Dunn will resign soon to join the State Department as a Lucey aide in Mexico City. Lucey said he would appoint Schreiber's choice to replace Dunn. Schreiber has tabbed State Budget Director John Torphy for that slot. He defended Schreiber's decision to replace Health and Social Services Secretary Manuel Carballo because "any governor is entitled to have his own people in his cabinet." Carballo, University of Wisconsin Senior Vice President Donald Percy Schreiber's choice to replace Carballo and Carley are three persons among less than 20 in the country who could administer the huge HSS agency.

The Legislature probably should consider adding new higher income tax brackets in the 1979-81 session even though it appears that a no-tax-increase budget could be EMFraL YOU WEATHER Clear, cool tonight, low low 40s. Friday, sunny, warmer. High upper 70s. 56 PAGES SIX SECTIONS VOL. 120, NO.

145 FIX A I. 204 MADISON, Thursday, June 2, 1977 Israel coalition ffirmoi as Begin softens stand The new policy document, personally authored by Begin, reiterates "the eternal and inalienable right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel," without specifying the occupied West Bank of Jordan, the political sources said. In another development, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine said 1,000 Israeli troops backed by 50 military vehicles have penetrated three miles into Lebanon In the second Incursion within a week. Israeli and Lebanese military spokesmen denied the report issued by the guerrilla group Wednesday in Beirut. The PFLP said the Israelis surrounded the village of Kfar Chouba, three miles inside Lebanon, and sent about 70 men into the town to search houses late Tuesday and withdrew Wednesday.

It was the second report of an Israeli incursion by the group in six days. Reports from the south said the invaders also were attempting to clear a road from Lebanon that led inside Another meeting is scheduled for Sunday. With the DMC Begin can count on up to 76 votes in the 120-member parliament. Without them he will have to rely on religious extremist parties for a bare margin of one or two seats. Talks between the two parties foundered last week over the naming of ex-defense minister Moshe Dayan of the Labor party to be foreign minister.

Political sources, meanwhile, said Begin has drawn up a new position on occupied Arab lands that is an attempt to moderate the Likud bloc's hard-line stance. The new policy document, personally authored by Begin, reiterates "the eternal and inalienable right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel," without specifyinglhe occupied West Bank of Jordan, the political sources said. The Likud bloc, under fire from President Carter and moderate Israeli leaders, had vowed to retain control of Arab lands captured in the 1967 Middle East War and establish Jewish settlements throughout jeopardizing delicate peace negotiations. TEL AVIV, Israel (UPI) A leader of Menaham Begin's right-wing Likud party said today he was optimistic about the quick formation of a government coalition including the more moderate Democratic Movement for Change. But DMC spokesmen said renewed talks between the two parties did not go beyond an exchange of opinions and there were still disagreements on policy.

"I feel things are going well," said Simha Ehrlich, No. 2 man in the Likud. "The meeting was held in good spirit and I am full of optimism for quick progress and the installation of a government that will include the DMC." Shmuel Tamir, a leader of the smaller group, said the Likud presented its guidelines for a new government, which call for direct peace talks with the Arabs and increased Jewish settlement in the occupied West Bank of Jordan. "There may be hope for success, but there are substantial differences, especially in the fields of foreign policy," he said. wA JJJJ4 AP Wirephoto Flipping their lids But the sources said Begin's new document represented an attempt to modify the Likud's hawkish stance on Middle East issues and make it more palatable to the Democratic Movement for Change, a prospective partner In a new Israeli government.

Likud negotiators were expected to present the document to the Democratic Movement later today. Details of Begin's new policy came to light as Carter's chief spokesman said in Washington that the president still believes the "ultimate solution" to the Middle East would include a homeland for Palestinians, probably on the occupied Arab lands. A top government official in Jerusalem Wednesday accused Begin of causing "nearly irreparable damage" to Israel's relations with the United States with his hawkish statements. The official, who declined to be identified, said Begin's assertions about the need for Jewish settlements all over the West Bank may have triggered the retaliatory barrage of pro-Arab statements by Carter and his aides. Political sources said Begin's 15-point blueprint, comprising what will be the new government's platform on domestic and foreign affairs, would be the basis for new negotiations with the DMC.

Their talks bogged down last week over the DMC's opposition to the naming of former defense minister Moshe Dayan as foreign minister in Begin's government. Begin has since backed down on the Dayan appointment. Unlike the Likud, the DMC is committed to relinquishing portions of occupied Arab territory in a final peace settlement. Begin's policy statement also calls for direct peace talks with the Arabs and rejects "solutions introduced from outside" the Middle East. Members of the graduating clans at the Air Force Academy throw their hats into the air at the traditional ending of graduation ceremines Wednesday.

A class of 851 listened to Defense Secretary Harold Brown deliver the commencement address in Colorado. Where to Find It Downtown state building still likely: Kisser Death notices Page 15 Editorials Page 44 Markets Page 14 Sam Shulsky Page 14 Sports Pages 17-20 Staying Ahead Page 26 Weather table Page 2 PM Section Arts Page 46 Comics, crossword Page 48 DearAbby Page 47 Earl Wilson Page 46 Feature Page Page 45 Judith Randal Page 47 Looking Backward Page 50 Showtimes Page4J TV and radio Page 51 The City Council voted Tuesday night to oppose construction of the new building because it did not conform to the city's proposed land use plan and would remove open space from the downtown. According to Risser, the state is prepared to appoint representatives to a state-city bason committee recently proposed by the city. "I agree with the city about green space," said Risser. "The planned building will leave considerable green space.

"We Intend to work with the city," he added, "not against it." ing office space, he said, "would make the state totally subservient to a couple of landlords." Besides, Risser said, there just isn't any more suitable office space for rent downtown. The City Council's opposition to the new building, Risser believes, comes from a lack of understanding. "What the City Council doesn't realize," he said, "is that we have already explored the alternatives. The city action was based on a lack of knowledge of the problems the state is confronted with. We are confident that when the information is known, they will reconsider their position." By HOWARD COSGROVE Of The Capital Times Staff Although opponents of a new slate office building in downtown Madison won a round in the State Assembly Wednesday, Sen.

Fred Risser (D-Mad-ison) is confident the $21 million structure will be included in the final state budget. The Assembly Wednesday voted 62-36 not to reject an amendment deleting the money for the building. The amendment was sponsored by Madison Democrats David Clarenbach and Peter Bear. The vote was just preliminary, meaning that the Clarenbach- Judge also admits error Simsonson: transcripts will chill recall Wisconsin By MILES McMILUN Bear amendment will be considered by the majority Democrats in their caucus. The caucus will decide whether to include the amendment in the final recommendation to the Assembly.

Clarenbach said he probably would not vote for the budget bill if it includes money for the General Executive Facility II (GEF II). "This Is not a particularly good budget for Madison and it would be tough for me to vote for a budget that has no guarantees for my neighborhood, he said. He is not entirely opposed to a downtown office building, Clarenbach said, but he wants to ensure that the state leaves some open space when it does build. Also, he said, the building should include a restaurant or coffee shop that would stay open after 5 p.m. "so its not just an office building that will close up at 5 p.m.

and leave the area desolate. "A bad state office building would work in the opposite direction from what we've been trying to do downtown for the last four or five years. In the past few years, the downtown has stood up to developer after developer with Irresponsible projects. The State of Wisconsin shouldn't be treated any differently." Wednesday's vote, he said, was "a major and surprising victory, particularly since the State Building is for it and the building commission carries a lot of weight around here. There still will be a tough fight ahead," he predicted.

Risser, vice chairman of the State Building Commission and a chief supporter of GEF II, said he was not worried by the Assembly vote. "I'm optimistic that the budget will include funds for GEF II," he commented. "Preliminary votes don't have that much significance." Risser said he would actively seek to retain the money for the building. "I have talked to a number of legislators," he said, "and as vice chairman of the Building Commission, I will be doing what I can to get the information out to the Assembly." He believes opposition to the building will fade when the state's need is made clear. "When the Assembly recognizes the lack of alternatives and the bind the state is in, it will return the funds to the bucket," he said.

To continue rent SOME OF MY friends teU me that I have the same morbid interest in Dick Nixon that I have in Count Dracula. I am disturbed by their accusations because I do recognize that Nixon's return to television has drawn me as irresistibly as Bram Stoker's novel did and as movies about vampires do. One of these cheerful friends has suggested that my interest is intensified because of my expectation that someone eventually will drive a stake through his heart. At his news conference today, Simonson said, "Many persons and groups of persons who were not present at that hearing have seen fit to analyze and interpret what transpired at that hearing. Unfortunately, some who were at that hearing, including the prosecutor and myself, have also analzyed and interpreted what transpired at that hearing without the benefit of refreshing our memories by the printed transcript." He said that because of this analysis, "some people have needlessly suffered emotionally, some people have needlessly become angered and some have even threatened violence." Simonson said both those who were in the courtroom and commented without consulting the transcript and those who were not in the courtroom and who have commented on the case "committed error." "As one of those who committed this error, I apologize," Simonson said.

He did not say how he had erred in his comments since the hearing and he refused to answer reporters' questions after he read his prepared statement. In that statement, Simonson said releasing the transcript of a court proceeding involving a juvenile poses procedural and legal problems. "Ordinarily there would be available to me legal advice from the District AtVmey's Office or the Corpora- By PHIL HASLANGER Of The Capital Times Staff Dane County Judge Archie Simon-son said today the transcripts of his comments on his now famous rape case will have a "chilling effect" on efforts to recall him. But he also said he erred in making comments about the case without consulting the transcript first himself. Simonson said an edited version of the transcripts would be released to the public at an unspecified future time.

He then told reporters at a packed news conference in a courtroom that they should contact his newly acquired attorney, Richard Cates, who worked for the House Judiciary Committee during its impeachment investigation, for any further information about the transcripts or the case. Cates' secretary said Cates was out of town and would not be available for comment until Friday afternoon. Simonson will be taking an unexpected, unscheduled vacation beginning Monday. Court officials were reportedly scrambling today to find a substitute for him. Judge Richard Bardwell, chief judge for this district and the person who would arrange for substitution, was unavailable for comment early this afternoon.

Simonson's clerkjconfirmed early today that the Richard Cates tion Counsel of Dane County," the judge said. "However, under the circumstances I really cannot turn to them because they are my critics." He said Cates would help him prepare the transcript for release "as soon as possible in such a form, in such a manner and in such a way that it will both protect the interest of the juveniles and serve the interest of the public." Once the transcripts are made public, Simonson contended, "There will be many critics who will conclude that they may have acted hastily in their condemnation of me and the judicial system. We further believe that once the transcripts are made public they will have a chilling effect on the efforts to remove me from the bench." Judge Simonson judge had decided over the weekend to leave. Comments Simonson reportedly made at the sentencing of a 15-year-old youth who had pleaded no contest to a charge of second degree sexual assault have touched off a nationwide furor. Although the hearing was closed to the public, a Wisconsin State Journal reporter attended the hearing and wrote that Simonson, after commenting on the community's permissiveness about sex and on women's provocative clothing, asked, "Should we punish severely a 15 or 16-year-old who reacts to it normally?" In later interviews, Simonson described women as "sex objects" and said they should stop teasing and provok men.

I PREFER TO think of it on a more rational scale. I have argued that Nixon is a complex personality of infinite fascination. His appeal is not primarily to a sense of morbidity, but to an interest in human psychology and history. I am intrigued, for example, by his apparent obsession about crying. He seems to be helplessly enmeshed in the conviction that if you report shedding tears in connection with an event, it indicates a sense of concern or integrity of intention.

He appears to be so overwhelmed with this notion that he is entirely inconsistent in his reports. I NOTICED this inconsistency in 1 (Continued oii Page 3, Col. 1).