The Salina Journal from Salina, Kansas • Page 8

Staff Cuff "Mr. Cour Into Retirement Fair Notes OM MfmcBt of Salina'i population wasn't pleased by the Tri-Rivers Fair parade Monday evening. The downtown pigeon community was startled into wild flight by the drum and bugle corps which led the parade down Santa Fe and never recovered its composure until after the parade ended. Thieves just naturally seem to take a liking to bicycles owned by L. Robert Taylor, 433 S.

8th. When Taylor was a junior high student, his bicycle was stolen and later found at the bottom of the river. It was the only bike he ever owned as a youth. When he graduated from college last spring, his mother, Mrs. Lloyd Taylor, 822 W.

South, gave bicycles to him and his wife. The bikes have been getting quite a bit of. use. Mr. and Mrs.

Taylor are teaching in the Culver schools this fall. When they returned home Monday evening, her new bicycle was missing. liecause they enjoy bike-riding together, both are now grounded. Tlie loss has been reported to police. Ten-hour meters will be installed in two more city parking lots this week, City Manager Morris Olson said Monday.

Forty five will be converted to the longer time limit in the panics lot at 8th and Ash, and 30 will Salina. go into the lot on the east side of 5th, between Iron and Wai- rut. Conversion of 67 meters to 10-hour parking in the lot at 7th and Walnut was completed Friday, Olson said Also scheduled in the near future are installation of 20 10- hour meters in the lot on 5th, south of Walnut, and another 20 in the lot on the east side of 5th, between Ash and Iron. Mr. and Mrs.

Ernest Nelson, Assyria, complained Monday to the Saline county sheriff's department that a man who allegedly took their supply of used lumber six weeks ago won't pay them for it. They said they saw the man removing the lumber during the first two weeks of July and have asked him to return it or pay the estimated $250 value. The Nelsons claim the man replies they'll never see the lumber and refuses to pay thm. People may be waiting longer than they should to make reservations for the annual Sa- (See editorial Pj. 4.) By Larry Ma thews A familiar will be missing from the Saline county courthouse scene after Tuesday.

Paul Drevets, sometimes called "Mr. Courthouse" because of his understanding of county problems after 27 years of pub- lie work, is retiring. He has served as deputy county clerk since Jan. 13, 1941, when T. R.

Shedden was sworn in as county clerk. He continued in the same job after Paul Swartz, the present county clerk, took office in January 1961. Added to this span of nearly 25 years of public service are two years, from Oct. 8, 1929, to Oct. 13, 1931, as deputy county treasurer under the late W.

A. Hilands. Drevets was an unsuccessful candidate for the office of county treasurer in 1931. Longtime Saline Resident He is a lifetime Saline county resident, born on a farm near Smolan in Washington township. He wss a farmer until becoming deputy county treasurer in Keith's Advice Is Still Good 1929, and again in the period until he was named deputy county clerk in 1941.

"I find it questionable 11 all the laws are (or the better. There too much federal government ia businesses and today. "Government controls are causing problems for the small farmers. The grass is greener on the other side, so many are moving to town. They only need better," he commented.

County officials, meanwhile, out the details of taking over Drevets' workload. Become Deputy Lorna Brown, the bookkeeper, will become the new deputy county clerk. She has worked in the office the past 10 years, and before that was Ellsworth county deputy clerk years. Mrs. Meldarose Rieger, who has been working in the assessor's office, will take over as bookkeeper.

Uhl Wbeatley, an assessor of new city improvements the past two years, will assume Drevets' assessing duties. Courthouse employes planned a retirement party for Drevets Tuesday afternoon on his final day of work. Drevets and his wife, Ruby, live at 913 Sheridan. They have a son, James, Chicago Heights, a daughter, Mrs. Vernon to farm 2 or 3 months of clerk's office have been one of Drevet's chief responsibilities.

He has been in charge of assessing oil properties since oil was first found in Saline county, and has assessed loan companies since they first came to lalina. For the past 10 years, the assessing of grain elevators has been another of his duties. Concerned He has noticed many changes in his work in the county clerk's office, and is concerned about some of them. "The last 10 pointed out, "about all the old tax laws, school and 1 city laws have been repealed and new laws adopted. We're living in a dif- year, and they livestock." are giving up Ross, Salina RFD 1, and grandchildren.

five Favors New Courthouse Drevets applauds the scheduled construction of a new courthouse as a wise decision. "We have 3 or 4 times the business that we had when this courthouse was built 55 years ago," he said. "We've needed more room and better working arrangements." But Drevets isn't as enthusiastic over combining the various city and county governments into one building, as planned. "It's all right if they can save money by combining them, but their operations should be kept separate. If the city, county and courts could each have their own sections, with a solid wall in between, it would work out' To Take It Easy Drevets will heed his doctor's orders to take it easy for awhile, and then may accept one of several part-time job offers.

He also hopes to do some traveling. "It has been a pleasure for me to work for and with the people of Saline county," he said. "I have found that the finest people in the world are right here. "I have had the privilege to meet and work with our state officials and boards, our congressional representatives, and county officers over the state, as well as local city, school and township boards. "I have made may friends among the field 1 representatives of the oil industry and grain industry, auditors for the various public service corporations serving Saline county, as well as other local business establishments.

"It's been a wonderful experience." By Jofca BalUH Keith Hughes, RFD 1, former Saline county commissioner, was an early visitor to the Tri- Rivers Fair. He came to help Mrs. Hughes and other members of her home demonstration unit put up their HDU booth at Agriculture hall. All the Hughes' children are too old for 4H now, but Hughes can remember telling his oldest son, now 45, advice that still holds: "You go into the fair to win. "But remember, not everybody's going to win, and you lean just as much if you don't." Youths Up Early Nobody waits until noon to fold his cot and blanket at the Tri-Rivers Fair.

and other exhibitors have their bunks clean and out of the way by 7 each day. They stay overnight Army Family's 32nd Move i Brings If To Schilling Manor prize money is a livelihood, but that doesn't necessarily mean easy living. For one thing, one said, you have to make a lot of money just to break even. "Th-3y say if a man makes S10.COO a year in prize money, he breaks even," he said. "That's because you have to include your (ravel expense, feed for the horse and depreciation on the car." to watch livestock.

Fair Parade Thrives On Threats Of Rain To Retire Clate Johnson, construction superintendent and man Friday, retires this year after 36 years work with the Fair. He expects his job to last another three days after the fair for cleaning up, than he "takes a Judges Helpful Even the layman can follow judging at the Tri-Rivers Fail- in most divisions. Judges usually are helpful about telling onlookers and exhibitors why they decide as they do. Dr. G.

B. Marion told 4Hers in dairy showmanship, for example, the most important thing in showing is to keep the animal where the judge can see it. That is trickier than it sounds when 15 or so animals will be in the ring at a time. Odd Paintings Street, Sidewalk Contracts Okay The Salina city commission, Monday confirmed contracts for street and sidewalk improvements. Bids on the projects were opened al Inst week's meeting, and the apparent low bids were accepted subject to study by the city engineer's office.

The bid of 185.093.74 by 0. D. Wilmolh Excavating Contractor Salina, was approved for curbing, guttering and-or paving of 17 city blocks. Also confirmed was the bid of S889.48 hy O. M.

Wilbur Construction company for sidewalks on 10 lots. Both bids were well under the engineer's estimates. The paving contract calls for improvements on a number of blocks on South 4th, Dismond Drive, Eastborough Road, South Ohio, Missouri Avenue, 2nd. 3rd, lOlh and 13th streets, and Crawford. New Sidewalks Sidewalks are to be installed on three lots on Roach and seven lots on West Cloud near Hageman school.

The sidewalks are to be completed by Sept. 17. Street improvements call for a completion date of June 30, 1966. Asks Light Change Joel Goucher, 638 Max, appeared before the commission to request a change in the location of one of the traffic lights By Phil Magert For 18 years Capt. Robert A.

Vogel has been in the Army and during that time his family has moved 1 32 times. The 32nd move was into Schilling Manor, the Former Schilling AFB housing area here. The Vogels are the first of a number of Ft. Rilcy families expected to move to Salina within the next few weeks. It's part of a program to provide housing for the families of Ft.

Riley soldiers fighting in Vietnam. About a dozen families are expected to come here. Capt. Vogel will leave for Vietnam Sept. 8 where he will serve as a post exchange officer.

He doesn't know exactly where he will be stationed. Friends Coming The Vogels are pretty well line county pre-school KU picnic. The picnic will be Sept. 10 at pm at Dan Bolens', 21 Crestview. But Mrs.

Gayle Rose, 311 Sunset, reservations chairman, said she would like to have reservations by Sept. 6. So far, response is slow. For two years now, rain has threatened annual Tri- Rivers Fair and Rodeo parade, and two years' experience seems to have produced only this conclusion: The threat of rain only makes the Tri-Rivers Parade grow. It doesn't end the parade and it doesn't make the crowds go away.

Monday evening Salina and area onlookers lined Santa Fe avenue four to six deep to watch a 4o-minute parade which had more than 40 basic units. "It "Biggest" was the biggest ever, er dollars, donated by the hambcr of Commerce and warded by the Jaycees. Has Best Bike Karen McDonald, 132 E. Min- eapolis, rode the best-decorated bicycle. Runnersup were andra Brown, 626 E.

Prescott, and Eddie Harlow, New Cam- ria. Mike Miller, 1105 N. 8th, )rought the best pet. Jane Saterlee, Assaria, won $2 for sec- nd and Cherlye Wilsie, 236 S. Phillips, won $1 for third.

Longford saddle club won first prize of $50, and Minneapolis saddle club won the second prize, Chancellor and Mrs. W. Clarke Wescoe, basketball coach Ted Owens, and Dick Wintermote and Bill Bilotta, of the alumni office, will be guests. The party is for incoming students, their parents, students and parents and alumni of the University of Kansas. Since the picnic is on a Friday, special dispensation has been granted Roman Catholic students.

Mrs. Rose's phone number is TA 7-0583. Price is $2. To Hear Private Club Challenge In November TOPEKA (AP)--A two-county challenge of the state's new private club control law will be heard by the Kansas Supreme Court during its November session. rj The court acceded to a quest by the state attorney gen- eral's office that case, an appeal from a Sedgwick County District Court decision, be ad- vanced for hearing because of its importance.

The law was found constitutional hy the Sedgwick County court, and unconstitutional in subsequent ruling of the Wyandotte County District Court. It was enacted by the 1965 Legislature to provide for state licensing and control of the pri vate clubs, a recent addition to the Kansas recreational scene. said W. W. Storey parade chairman, as he announcec these winning entries: Brookville 4H club had the best float.

It won $40 with a modern space parody, "Take Me to Your Leader, Your 4H Willing Workers placed sec ond, winning $30 with a big smoke-breathing dinosaur. Kipp was third, $20 and Mustard Seeds fourth, $10. Chris Lindsay, 945 S. llth won in the kiddies' costume fli vision for children less than 1 years old. David Wilsie, 236 5 Phillips was second and Susa Brown, 626 E.

Prescott, was third. Prizes in all the children's ri visions are $3, $2 and $1 in si Nobody seems to know exactly what they are, but the black, octopus shaped paintings on trash cans at the Fair ought to scare anyone into using them. $30. Lightning awed the parade crowd minutes before the parade began at 5 pm Monday. The eastern sky put on a gigantic display.

The rain downtown never became more than a good, sprinkle only a few drops fell during the parade. The same thing happened last year. Pigs In Parade For the first time there was a float for pigs in the parade. A pickup carried a penful advertising the pig sacking contest whose last night is Tuesday before the rodeo at Kenwood grandstand. Three bands marched: the Salina Municipal band, the Sa- lina High band and the Downtown Optimists Drum and Bugle corps, which led the parade.

City and county commissioners and Tri-Rivers Fair officials rode in convertibles, as did the Dairy Princesses and the 4H queen, candidates. Two "firsts" were the Saline county sheriff's posse and the Salina chapter of the ure Farmers of America. The Kansas Campers Association, which seeks make a national convention site of Lake Kanopolis, had a whole campsite a truck bed. Salina's soapbox derby winner, Joe Frank, rode his soapbox car atop a truck. There were families of implements, from lawn garden trac- Not Lazy Lest anyone think they sleep all morning in urban bliss, let it he known the Saline county extension agents all met early Monday for breakfast and conference at th-3 Fair well before most Salinans were beginning even to think about work.

"Charlie Brown" tors to wheat field combines, and other businesses paraded their wares. One of several clowns may have been the man who called Storey early Monday afternoon from Abilene. "Say, how does a fellow get into this parade," he said. That's easy, he was told, just be there. "Great," the fellow said.

"I've got a clown costume, and I get a big kick out of parading around in it." Good Karen Kohman, 14, Gypsum, brought a calf to the fair this year with the name of "Charlie It was born to the heifer she brought to the fair last year in winning a reserve champion award in showmanship. Watch Landing A small crowd gathered to watch a special report on the Gemini 5 landing at Agriculture hall before the commercial exhibits officially opened. The attraction was a large- screen, color TV. at 9th and Cloud. Goucher pointed out the' light on the southwest corner of the intersection is sometimes missed by southbound traffic because it sits back too far.

Ninth street widens on the south side of the intersection. Eight Accidents He said he believes the situ- E4ion has contributed to the large number of accidents at the intersection. Duane Pearce, city planner, said there have been eight accidents, involving property damage of $100 or more, at the intersection this year. The commissioner's promised to study the situation. The commissioners also: Accepted a recommendation by City Manager Norrls Olson that a slrcet light he installed at the corner ot Ralph anil Roach.

A petition requesting the light hail been signed by 13 area, property Referred to the zoning board of appeals petition by Fuller Auto Snl- vnge. 50) E. Pacific, asking rezonlng of two lots for an expansion project. Under a zoning ordinance amendment placing atito salvage yards under "special such petitions are handled by the appeals board. settled in their home at 308 Helena, and Mrs, Vogel is expecting her friends to be neighbors before long.

She said several of her friends: are moving to nearby houses within the next few days. In fact, one is moving in right n-sxt door. "We're going to keep together," Mrs. Vogcl said, "so we can help each other." She said they got their house within two dnys after inquiring about the possibility of moving to Salina. "Housing is pretty critical al Junction City," she said.

Army families are not allowed to live on the Ft. Riley reservation after the military member of the family is transferred, she explained. The Vogels have moved from station to station all over the world, but they were at Ft. Riley the longest, 17 months. Two Children They have two boys.

Terry attends junior high, and Robby goes to Sunset school. When asked what she thinks of the Manor and Salina, she answered: "Oh gee, I like it. "Everybody is so friendly. "I think they're the friendliest people I've ever known, and I ought to be an expert. I've moved 32 times." ai i I New Salinan Mrs.

Robert A. Vogcl at the door of her new home. (Journal Photo) Enrollment Rises To 8228 Another 114 students were in Salina public schools Tuesday bringing total enrollment to 8228. Dr. M.

Scott Norton, superintendent of Salina Unified District No. 305, said the second- day figure is 851 more than had been predicted for this year. "We expect the next enrollment figure of major significance to be Sept. 7," he said. More TO Come "Many families aren't back from vacations until after Labor day, or, for other reasons, wail until then to enroll their children in school." Tuesday's enrollment compares with the 19G4 second-day enrollment of 10,512 and the official Dickinson Welfare Fund Cut Approved TOPEKA The Dickinson county commissioners have finally won a round in their bat- tie to lower the county welfare department's budget.

Marvin E. Larson, state director of social welfare, told The Salina Journal the state board of social welfare has approved the commission's latest 'budget. That budget called for a reduction -of $5000 in the county welfare department's administrative costs. The commission had been rebuffed in attempts to cut the welfare budget 150,600 and 130,000. Larson said if the county's welfare hudget now trimmed to $910,000 proved 1 inadequate, Sept.

15 enrollment of 10,712 last year. Woman Survives 5-Hour Swim But Husband Dies A Warning Okays Roosevelt Tuesday, Aug. 31-WASHINGTON 7 (AP) Th. Senate Foreign Relations Com mittee approved today the nom 0f Rep. James Roose to Unitec Nations post.

Tuesday, Aug. 31-MARINETTE, Wis. (AP)-The ody of Albert C. Ingersoll St. Louis shipping executive ought on the stormy waters of Green Bay.

was found today on le shore about five miles south Marinette. The executive's wife reached shore in a five-hour ordeal Monday after the couple's small sail- xiat capsized 1 three miles off the Peshtigo Lighthouse south ot She was hospitalized suf from exposure, shock anc exhaustion. Ingersoll, about 54, presi dent of Federal Barge Lines and his wife, Carol 42, had been attempting to sai across the bay off Lake Michi gan from the city of Sturgeon Bay to Marinette in a 16-foo boat, a collapsible craft they carried in the trunk of the car Nuel Belnap, a Winnetka, 111 lawyer who was to have bee the couple's host at a dinne party at his summer home here said Mrs. Ingersoll told him th waves were washing into xiaf and eventually capsized the raft about 1 p.m. She and her mshantJ each wore a life pre- erver and had strapped on an nflated seat cushion.

Swam Steadily Mrs. Walter Bantle, nursing supervisor at Marinette General lospital, quoted Mrs. Ingersoll as saying "she swam steadily she got so stiff as soon as she stopped. She said she had keep moving. The waves were so strong Daputy Sheriff Larry Pre- Fountain added, "she was terribly exhausted.

She was lucky she had 1 two life preservers or she wouldn't have made it." Mrs. Ingersoll was sighted near the shore shortly before dark by a resident who rescued her by boat. She said waves separated her from her husband about an how before she was found. Winds and rains whipped the bay during the night with the U.S. Coast Guard reporting five foot waves.

Temperatures were in the 40s. May Try To "Dilute" Hurricane Tuesday, Aug. 31-MIAMI, (AP) Hurricane Betsy remained nearly stationary 900 miles east of Florida early today while considered whether to dilute her strength by seeding. Gordon Dunn, head of the National Hurricane Center in Miami, said Betsy is out there "not bothering anyone." Scientists with Project Storm- fury flew to Roosevelt Roads, Puerto Rico, where a decision was to madte soon on an attempt to feed the hurricane silver iodide crystals. Such crystals would, weathermen hope, condense moisture- laden winds to rain and thus "Is your brand registered?" That's what a sign asks you at a commercial boolh in Ag Hall at Kenwood park now.

The Kansas Livestock association explains further: "It shall he unlawful for any person to use any brand for branding any livestock unless said brand shall have been duly Aid To Education Bill Okayed Unanimously Tuesday, Aug. 31-WASHINGTON (AP) The Senate Labor Committee unanimously approved today a billion higher-education bill to authorize funds to aid needy students and help colleges meet the enrollment crush. The committee added to the bill new provisions designed to improve education in poverty- stricken districts of cities and rural areas. Sponsors said the measure will be reported to the Senate a Wednesday and probably taken a preliminary plat of the I.aughlln Park subdivision, tnvnlvlnc 33 acres south of White slreet and west of Broadway. Westport Files Report Improvements are estimated at $171,215 for development of a 24-acre light industrial area at the west edge of Salina.

funds would be advanced.to county welfare department to allow it to operate. Funds have "We didn't know bow to esU-(be en advanced to the depart- for debate Thursday. More Than He Asked As it cleared the Senate committee, it goes far beyond Pres- dent Johnson's recommenda- ions. But he has concurred in most of the changes. The vote to send the bill to recorded in the office of the commissioner in Topeka." Violate that law anct it'll cost you between $25 and S503.

Mysterious Betsy's destructive So a hurricane break up formation, seeding has not proven conclusively effective. Send your news tip to the Salina Journal. $19 in prizei every week. Mysterious as a dentist's office were the crates ominously sitting al the booth of the American Dental association before unloading. One said, right along with packing and shipping instructions, "Break the chain of tooth decay Property of the American Dental association." Thoughtful Ever mindful of the public is the Tri Rivers Fair.

Rusty plumbing in several comfort stations in Ag Hall was replaced before the fair this week. Rodeo Bigtime The rodeo circuit has become bigtime now, lasting from Jan nary until November. For many of the cowboys The estimates were contained in a feasibility study for the Westport Exchange addition, filed Monday with the Salina city commission. Of that total, $162,460.65 woiilc be assessed against the prop erly involved and be pakf by the city-at-Jarge. Developers requested the im provements at last week's cit commission meeting.

The feas ibility study was completed earl icr this year but its filing wit! the city commission was with held until i commitment from potential businesses were I he Senate for passage was 16- with the committee's- five Republican members joining 11 democrats in supporting it. The House passed the legisla- ion last week, also expanded jreatly over the administra- ion's proposals. The House version would authorize about $650 million the first year compared with $667- million for the Senate measure. But the Senate bill contains authorizations for an additional four years in most titles, bringing the total to S4.7 billion. mate the impact of the closing of Schilling on civilians not connected with the base," Dr.

Norton said. "Apparently, fewer people have left Salina than expected. "We had estimated we might lose 2700 to 3000 students by this fall, including both children of military personnel and others. "With enrollment not yet completed, we now have only 2484 fewer students than on Sept. 15, 1965." The Salina district superintendent said six "standby" elementary teachers have been called into service.

He said seven elementary teachers had resigned since contracts were awarded in March. Those positions were left vacant until after pre-enrollmcnt this fall. A Close Watch "Right now we are watching closely the situation at Salina senior high school and Roosevelt-Lincoln junior high school," Dr. Norton said. "If those enrollments keep go- we may have to increase ing our staff there." He said enrollment totals are 4885 in kindergarten through grade 6 3343 in grades 7 through 12.

ment the past two years. Probe Half-Finished Larson said the state investigation of alleged welfare abuses at Abilene is about half-finished. Ha said he expects it to be complete in about two weeks. Larson said he would have no comment on the investigation until it is finished. Larson said the state department of social welfare is not too concerned with a grand jury investigation of the county welfare department, being urged by petitions in circulation, throughout Dickinson county.

Will Cooperate "The grand jury is a democratic institution and we certainly will be cooperative with grand jury," Larson said. Petition asking that the grand jury be empaneled will be presented to District Judge Walter E. Hembrow, Council Grove. Sept. 13.

George Talbert, Abilene businessman who put the petitions into circulation, told The Journal the decision was reached at a meeting with district judges here Monday afternoon. Talbert said Judge Hembrow would 1 handle the petitions without the help of Judge Albert As it Million Total cleared the education The asks streets, curhs and gutters, sanitary scwcr and water lines to serve the 24 acres. The Westport Exchange addition is an 114-acre tract between flood control dike and ln- highway north of Crawford Slreet roatf. Owners are Frank Willis and Dr. L.

F. Eaton of Salina, and Gene Cain of Topcka. They told the commission earlier that prospective new businesses include a service station, implement agency and restaurant. They said construction could be started this fall with commission approval of the improvements. The commissiotKrs accepted the report, pending further study.

subcommittee last Friday, the measure totaled The bill would carry out a Johnson recommendation by inaugurating a program of scholarships for needy college stu- supplementing present loan and work-study assistance. One of the provisions added to the bill in committee would set up a national teacher corps with a first-year authorization of $36.1 million. This would make available about 6,000 teachers to go into poverty-stricken areas, and seek to improve educational opportunities for disadvantaged children. Fletcher Junction City. Tuesday morning, Talbert said he had 1077 signatures he feels are valid.

He expects to about 1200 signatures Sept. 13 Conrad, Cooper valld sisnar res Hale And Hearty By Howard Benedict Tuesday. Aug. CAPE KENNEDY, Fla. A MONTECATINI, Italy (AP) Astronauts L.

Gordon Cooper MJ SS Xanina Safcka. 24, au- Jr. and Charles Conrad thor of children's books, has their hearty appetites gradually been designated Europe's' ideal regaining the weight the pair wcr nan in an annual competi. lost during an epic eight days i held in this spa near Flor- Author Judged "Ideal Woman space, huddled today with technical and rr.odica! experts who sought to learn everything possible about the flight of Gemini Meanwhile, two other astronauts. Walter M.

Schirra Jr. and Thomas P. Stafford, were busy preparing for Gemini 6, less than two months away. Cooper and Conrad flew to the Cape Monday from the aircraft carrier USS Lake Champlain. They had been ferried to the carrier by helicopter after splashing into the Atlantic Ocean at the end of their record mission.

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia; The astronauts immediatel A I Prince Norodom Siha-jwere hustled to a medical facil for exhaustive tests which not disclose any adverse nee. The judges said they picked Miss Sakka, who is from Greece, not only because of her general knowledge and good looks but also for her cooking and sewing ability. To Visit Romania nouk has accepted an invitation i Hy to visit Romania next Xovem- did bcr, it was announced. i symptoms. Alkire Sentenced Billy Alkire, who pleaded 1 guilty to grand larceny in the theft of a boat, has been sentenced to not more than five years in the Kansas State penitentiary, Lansing.

The district court ordered Alkire taken to the Kan. sas Stale Reception and Diagnostic center. You will be happily surprised. Classified Ads sell old things..