The Times from London, Greater London, England • Page 7

THE TIMES, FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 1873. ZL tie railway ooeipan were allowed to compete with rrSutr4 to trav.1 at aratoof speed wb.h mad SttnaKty impossible aad it wae well known tbat want of naHtrwaiW of tbe chlf mm eeeldenta. It CathA time, therefore, to tmt a stop to tb reeltles pro lVars by wWh, drtb ystouvof railway SUt, lb Itw sad limb of th tn in lbli saeriSceJ, una abouM lib to see Jjverameattoketie aeceasary to secure that tb part of bis ceattHnenls, thanked u.fMiict for havlar, to promptly acted on th re JSVfthe lmltEs by latrodudn. tb. Bill.

in tb West W0i of Yoikahir would affected the rwpol amali.walwa. as itutt.n practically ia peescstico eeeal. brt. Intents and r'TO 50 throuth tSc. 0U to th deprechtbm of a.l J.rof.rty, too, TVTwm eve ktl repair, aod on?) to a few S2ftK7aty rn lU to that tbey wer not la requisite to enable tlicm to meet UVuirW tW boubl In a rrr.

were bcrefore of iSTiliAi emancipated rlU iilttyoaU form a very useful adjunct la traA. esr ciaKy at tim railrcd, lJXfi Heeled tip, they wire anxious that tbe JWUkat of th Hill ahoell rootiv th aateat of (Hear, hear.) lie hop4 under tbca circuni tJk4l tb Criveromeat would stand rinu to th jno MulTwbick tbey had W. n'1 thu tocy ouM not alio asar to bo taptdred ia any uUiul fvuticular. jlr. DODSiWr dU aot concur with thoc wtto tl.ouit tait ti prorUiontof tb IUU UmlJ Us maJ aions tria.

tk dircetloa of tnpemdins railway cotapaaie toe oAstrol of tbrir ova raUroI but the liill, ritaoat iatroJttdof aay nw priBSsjo, merely touxlt prorttlt tt macbiotry raaiite to carry out lh UUUa of Us frituen of tfae CinU Trtffie AcU Xbe DU MtBjJy afforJeJ factUtirt for cartjiot oat the prin p)ctof tbo Caail aod TraSo ActoJ 1S51. The trSbuual to be appoiated naJer It vouU not take Sato itt Land the loatrol or almnUtraUoo of railway. It woaU liar no feiiktirt poer vbatcrer, bat ouH Und In tie placo of 0urt of Oomnioa i'leaa ia titrioj aectto tLo priucU blM eftae Act of 1851, aal it would fcrther CltcLarse Ibo auurtaat function of arbitrator betweeo the tneniU the pnblie and railway eotopaoiva, and between cpxpuy and oouuay ia oth matter! a tlie work It of a eoairaoa aUtion. Tba Dili niutt bo rejcuded a an txMfiaient. Uhthtr tb tribaaal ia quotioa would anwr the parpoc for whica it a about lobeercatcd exptri citv ooiy would thow hut the aincriaieat was oce whUb, kt taoasht, ouzbt to bo fairlr trint.

liii lijht hoo, friend f)tr. Ut) looked forward to the purchase of the railways at la State as sou cruis to vliui wb muum cumc. Weil, be wished Lis rij'at boa, friend a rery lonf life, but tuJ hmm Lii'liffl ccLrht proloninL that bo wadi aot lit to so that day. (Hear, bear.) lie bad heard past opposit piuiont expressed as to what tba effect of tin possession of the Railways by the Stale would be, tber wen at present anar of about 3X0X1 men la tho aidaymat of the varioas railway companies, and that fact weald throw iameosa patron; into th bands of tb Go Ttraaeat. It would, of eooise, rest with the Uoveniiaent to say bat amount of facilities for traffic should be sin, and.

what rata should be adopted for the differeut towns and port of the kingdom, and it was obrioss that that would pUe ia the hands ox any Gorcraaoent tnormou powers lowers so enormous that it bad been said no Government possesMdaf them coald be turned out of oSco. If they fcada Goremment so pure a to be perfectly iacapaU of Jobbery, crea on the ct or a (cneral election, stilt piopl would be found who would cot bo iu tki to belier ia the purity of the fioreni' aiwU for hi part, be was ineHnad to think that so eeonaou would be tho' pairoaas of tb Gorern meat and so great their power of favouring particular Ixatitiea, that they would el posed to so orach tospieion tad odium as to render jerernmoat almost impossible. (Hear, beaz.) lis was ttrocMr diposd, therefore, to think that Use possession of th railways by the Slat would en. tUanr the canse of xod goreraUMnt and the stability cf say sererament whatever. With to catialy wbile was ia favour of their betas frv froai th cootrol of lb laHaay could out bat so that from the peculiar circsBuianoF ooder which they were placed they could aot compete tueeessf ally with th railwaya, lie ajrreJ with thi principle of the Uul, aod hoped that the House would oaseat to try the experiment which it proposed.

Mr. iUXER feared that as tb tribunal to appointed Cadcr tba Bill was to be constituted, the experiment it proposed would be a failure. For tb remuneration to be gttea. taet eoeJd not bop to get men of smicruce and txpenrnco whom be pubtie and tba railway eompaniet would have to discbarga the important duties ooatemplatod by tb BdL lie should like to see such a tribunal tried, bat under conditions which 'would fir it a fair chance of ilz. DETJLHUUTT observed that th existing tribunal far curjias out the Act of was expsnsire and Jefee liTt, and it was therefor desirabl to creato another which eoaid speedily and cheaply determine questions arising between the public and ttie railway companies aod between oa company and another.

It bad boco stated that railway Boardt sometimes diverted traffic from th rout which it should naturally take, and knew from experience that suck was th fact. Th Judge ia the Court of Common riau were, no doubt, Tery cood lawyers, but few of thm understood much about business matters and if a tribunal wer appointed coasistiae of men conversant with railway asd eaaal traffic, it would, ho believed, bo peatly to th adraatag of the aharebolder of tb different companies, for it was tb sbareheldrrs who suffered when th managers and directors of diSercnt eompafiies wer allowed to fight with on anotber. (Hear, bear.) ilr. C0LD6MID desired lo protest agsinst the theory of tb rijht ben; gentleman with regard to tho purchase by tksSttU of all tb railwaya. Ai present tb Government foaad tb greatest difiealty in dealing with tb question of dockyard wajrea, and if tba Govarasoent bad a body of Ben about UXL08Q in number to control, the Hons would I delsfed witi coaptoteu on tb score of wajts, salaries, aatroaaE.

branch lines, and reduction of fares. ifr. FOSTESOUE desfaed to thank tb Hons for th re eatioa aocordedtb DM ra by bis riglit ton. friend opC poaite, who seemed to possess to perfection tba art of throw, tag cold water upon what bad described a a "sanguin 11 did not acre with bit right boa. friend rtaU ateat that a Judge was merely a layman jHut a 'kdg of law, and that this tribunal would" therefor be kisrior to th Court of Common Fleas.

Hdld not wish' to exstod tb legal mind, bat la question like this of mixed law and fact tt wa Utter that tkey should aot cshcaitacd to th purely legal miod, addMoa to which te tim of th Court of Common Flea was fully occupied with other business. Th proposal bow ssad neither excluded nor DC judged the queatioa of i nti and safety of paasengers a qoestioa which onll be, no eonildared byacommitto re i ttaaly sppoiaUd by aha other Hons of Psrtiimtni, TnBfflwathaiaeeondtiffl. SUPPLY. Th Houathen wat iato Commitiao of Supply, and rootededtodwiththArayEnata. OatUToU ofl968taea a sb total nambar on th British esUhHshment, Lord ELCHO detired to eH the attention of th Chaai ceSorofaExehefoerUthe whiah th Com.

aris wa aow pkosd. Whra th Hooa abandoned it arirBegaof briag aieU forward for diseussioa oo th Botioufor going into Committe of Supply, It did so bo eau it wa urged that aba time at whiah Supply would brought on would known a eertaiaty, and those who teak sa Interest la the quettkms likely com oa would bsahkUUiaabair place. The Government, however; had pat Sowar down tb eeooad order oa tb paper. 1 had taken as th Scat a question relating to railway and I traaa. As railway ana canaa lnceresis were ttrj 'M that Bouse, ft wa eridoot from th sUUof th i oa hktisht (a laacb) fth front Oppotttion bench ad the beaeh immdUUl Uhlad being cOmpletaly de rrtadl and from tb fact that aa hon.

maaber who had flaesdM the paper an aanesdment for reduction of our tsrees by 1090 biea was not bis plaee, thaa Supply was expected to coeae oa at so early aa hoax, Ik. DOD80K marked that the aobl lord had lost W4a fact that thrlutlon agreed to the other only appHed to Mondays. Lord CECIL sid wa wlthia Lb knowle.ig that tb right hen, member for Droit wioh eonld not return to aithtaaeuhattast o'clock. It was desirabl that Wata who took aa kterest the estimate and bad (rvtd atgh oSeee, a hk right ben. friend had don, should at these diiwaiitnaa.

There was, however, barfly any geatUmaa now la the Hon who took an in Wrest 1 Amy Battor, aad it would be desirabl that the ahoaU he defernd atU they could present, A eneiluu lata pr eat etate of the lions was certain to to desaHery ead wai aot at all Bkely to be profitable. Lord ELCHO was aware that th new rul a to Supply appHed to Motsdays, bat his potatwu that members tt4 been toiaeed to aive up their right to mek motion! i oo t.bxto&apply, ia order that it might be certain when TU CSXXCELLOSi of the EXCHEQUEB said that Boat had given np lU right for on day of tb week for the That was on of jt ec. which th House retalaed iU right ta0aWael COEBLTT wished tokaow whetherth popnla. "of fcrpakir had eo far increased that it was to be asd with twwTeftmeat xeerHng the avrrag owota of taHetakiaJom. Xr.

GABfiWBLL said that to population of th district "toted to the ahdak, aad th appendix to the Army showed the brigade orgaaitatioa In tie itat it real wbea lt waa Celscel (irt.PTV uLI tw altboiwfa be mlsht not azfo hiflt4 pmoaad ajrangementt of tb Socreteryof Ka WMaaxioas to rivehis credit far bavlg at heart feteresta aad hottour of the aervioa, with due cxjsider tor toe tatcrnU of the taxrayer.Coainlng himajdf to tb watea be toleagoJ, ft wisn sow nr leasaaaa attoattoa to two rcoosMcow4un rtW ltoyal Owm atotos aad th other by tb 8elvt 1 i mJ okLfJ. kc kad hea a member. 3ewccmiudcatoati Het hadtoea ae.tod, appeared, wit xc ent TU meesaioBSstoBt toe.alUitla for tlx yean teatead ar Ave was cost tor far ah eeaatry. Therighthon. tU kk UmuU bow maar Militia fost had awae to Mbaolto th reeular army fer iattrao; Mea.

the reseat being to etve eoaaieaoe to themealvae aad bte km aches. MfLwsaa the right hon; ko Mmih Maesae of Amy reorfanltstioni 'M totd aaia4.Sa.iJ a atHlata. tAeers ware ia aa and rthat ttor were comraga a .7 i a tbemaelv of th advantage to afforded them, aad who rav satisfsctorr nroofs of sfficienev. should re coiva commissions without pure has ia th Lin. A larr number of officers flocked accordingly to tb Militia standards, and went to considerable expens and trouble to owns loairucuon.

cat wa tneir dismay, nowaver.wnen tbey( found that tbey wer aot likely to obtain their com tuissioot becsns aa educational examination was likely to addod to that ia military iastructioD. It wa bard that tbre rentlemea should now be' called upon, without notit to comply with new conditions. There was no hardship in calling upon young men fresh from College to undergo an educational examination, but when the Lent Lieutenant and the Colonel sent ia the nomination! it might tie taken for granted that the gentlemen held th wxition and had obtained th education of gentlemen. Itulra for tbo rulilanoeand emoluments of the servic should be carefullr rouaideml. and when one adoptrdthey liould bo faithfully adhered to.

The right hon. gentleman lied done many thin; for the wbten was under considerable to him, aad it was to be honed he would uot no deprive tbo officers of what' they thought was not only a benent to the service but a matter of jusUc to thtmielves. (Hear; bear.) Jlr. OAIlDU'ELL said the elimination was so simple that to one with tbe education of a gentleman could fail to pats It llicrefora no hardship whatever was indictel. So careful indued liad be been of tbe interests of those wbd might le induced to enter tbe Uilitia in oonsequeneo of bat be said tbat the ago for catering the Army was ex tended a yesr lest any una should be shut out.

I GILl'IK did not know th extent of the examiua ticn. All be knew was that it was not mentioned ia tbe first Mr. CAllUWELL said it was institute when the general arrangements were m1e more than a yesr ago. Lonl E. CECIL said the statement made oa Monday by ibe right hon.

genlleujln seemed to ldra to aim at economy rather than cthciencyr' lie could not, understand why, if tbe abort rervieo reserves were not to' come into play eerlirr than IS7G, wo. should reduce th Army by 8,000 men. Tbe natural coorseprould be not to make this reduction until there ass a sufficient number of men in tbe reserve, and this be imagined would not occur until tbe year 167C Soma explanation was required oa this point. Agaia.be thought tho figures given by bis right hon. friend with rviereacato decrtioa were a little, obscure.

He did not think the proposed increase of pay to the soldiers would bo a suOicieut inducement to sttract to the service the class of men whom we desired to see in 'the ranks. Then bis right ban. friend bsd nut referred to tbe subject of thedcarthof horsey wluehhad been so ably touched ujon bv a noble lord in another Uce. Eerhaps, however, his nht ban. friend would give tie Committee soma ides bf tbe wav in which be proiosed to supply the great defi.

iieocy of horses which cxistedydn the event of our ting suddenly obliged to send the Army into the field. He held that no anny could be regarded as efficient io tho field unless possessed a sufficient number of thoie most necessary beasts of burden. In Prussia, on tho peace establishment tbete were 312.023 men and 73.307 horses, or one horso to about ever four men. In England we had about 4CJ.0W) men all arms and 15.120 horses, or one bone to about every 30 men. lie was also informed' that the rruixiaus hd a sufficient number of reserve horses, which could at any moment be sent into the field.

In regard to' guns we had about lot), whereas, according to tbe German projwr tionof three guns per l.UUUmen. we ought to possess at least 1.3iW. Mr. All VTE LL. Th number of cans we nsed.to have was 180, but during tbe last two years it bad been railed to 333.

Lord E. CECIL maintained that this was not a sufficient number considering tbe proportion observed ia tbe German Army. Adverting to the grievances of tbe purchase officers wno suit retnainca in toe Army, the now low remarked that the boa. and gallant member for Eewdley (Colonel Anson), wbo had formerly advocated their case so ably ana saccessluliy, was unfortunately to fill room oy sickness. It was not bis intention to go into all the in tricacies of tho question which was thoroughly discussed in 1S71, but he would remark that bis right bon.

friend bad stated oa one occasion that so officer would be placed in a worse position than he occupied before. Mr. CAEDWELIv In respect of the commission which be then held. Lesl E. CECIL went on to say that, rightly or wrongly.

officer who had purchased their commissions supposed that in pureoaung vneir nrst commission tney naa also obtatneu all the privileges which a commission would have given them under the former system, including the privilege of rapid promotion. Tbey also supposed that after 20 years' service they would have the right, whatever position they tnight hold of selling out and receiving the lull valu of their commissions. This, however, was cot the ease. In' many instance great hardship had been inflicted, and it ought to be remembered that the officers are really in the hands, be would not say of an irresponsible commission, but' of a commission which acted almost in the dark. Nobody knew in what way the money was apportioned when a commission was sold.

It often happened that an officer received much less than he expected, and then he naturally felt that in bis case there bad been a breach of contract. It would be well if tbe Secretary for War could say something on this head to comfort a very large body of oiheers in Ui service. He did not say that the officers ahould receive all tbey asked for, but tbey expected a little more to be done Jor them than had been done, and tbey would be satisfied if a committee or a commission were appointed to inquire into their claims. Unless something were ilone, these grievances would go on for 10 or 20 years, justaatboseof Indian officers had done. There was a widespread feeling of dissatisfaction; but no one wished officers to feel tbat thev had been unfairly dealt with.

It was gratifying to find that in the linked battalions facilities were to be afforded to officers, if tbey wished it, to come home from India and tropical climates, and the arrangement would be a great boon if it were properly carried out, The chanj with regard to rations was a step in the right directionnd he sincerely hoped that when bit right hon. friend spoke of rations be included the evening meat Mr. CAIlDWELL. I stated distinctly at the time that it wa and everybody knows that is a bread and neat ration. There could be no possibility of misunderstanding.

Lord CECIL was quite aware the right hon. gentleman did ttat th axact amount, hut still be hoped it was possible there might be some mistake about it, ana tbat something more was intended than was actually expreesed. Feelings of disappointment had been expressed that a little more than bread and meat was not included, and be would ask whether the ration could not be railed from jib. to lib. of meat.

He was told that this was what the soldier usually got in the field, and he was quiet certain it would be a good thing for recruits of 17 or 18, who were growing Sutha, If tbey could have rather snore meat than they now d. A quarter of a pound of meat more a day was a very small boon to ask for, and it would be gladly received by tb private in tb British Army. It was a pity that some arrangement was not made by which a portion of the pay of tb soldier Could be saved for him until he had completed hi six years term of service, when the possession of the money would enable him to in some trade, which would be far better than that should spend tbe money, aa he too often did, ia the canteen; While tbe statement of tb right hon. gentleman did not go as far as could be wished in com respects, la other it bad commanded th approval of ithoae who took a warm interest in the Army. Mr.

A BROWN said that th system of purchasing horse wa on which involved expenditure which did not prod oca any proper Colonels of cavalry regiments who were allowed to purchase horses often competed with each other in tbe same market, and thus raised the cost to the pobHa aad the tame remark applied to the Artillery, the Army Service Corps, and th Autumn Maaowivrea, The prices paid confirmed view as to the actual competition. The prices paid for hones for the cavalry, which ranged from 2SL, to A2L, were higher than those paid by any large civil "establishment. The head of the Ordnance Department paid HL per head for horses for the JLutuma Manoeuvres, i'rora a letter ia Thi Timet it appeared that the average price paid by tbe General Omnibus Company was 321. 17a. ed.

Volunteer would be glad to know when thev might expect the decision or report of tho Committee ou Volunteer tfnjiformv Tbe falling ou ia the numbers of tbe Volunteers was due to twe or three causes, and one of them was the want of a good aad efficient staif of non commissioned" officers to drill the Volunteers. The fact was that officers in. tbo liejalars did not send to the Volunteers non oom mitsioaed olEctrs who" were worth; much, but naturally retained tba best for themselves. He hoped that the right boo; gentleman would find some wsy of meeting' the difficnity that had arisen through a number of Volunteer officers having been compelled to resign tbeir commissions ia consequence of their being nsable to falfil all tb now exacted from them. He alio suggested that thoae persons who bad obtained commissions might be transferred from the Chelsea Department to tb war umee juepartmenc, wnere the pensions cf commissioned officers were now paid, in order tbat they might be able to get tbeir pensions commuted nnder the Commutation Act of 1803.

He trusted tbat the right bon. gentleman would persevere in the policy of bringing home our soldiers stationed in our Colonies ami in foreign stations, whereby the training and discipline of the troops would be Improved and the amount of the Estimates reduced. 2ow that the Treaty of Washington had removed all fear of disagreement with America, be saw no use ia our maintaining the large force we now bad in the Caoadiaa Mr. CAKDWBLL remarked that the total force we had in Cant da at lb present time was 1.SC9 menhd they were all oa garrison duty. Mr.

BltOWN hsxl intended to refer to Nova Scotia rather thaa to the Canadian Dominion. lathe Mediterranean stations we had now 10,000 men, which in his opinion wa far too large a force. Msior A KBUTHNOr regarded the speech of tbe Secretary for War' the other night as an admirable specimen of the optimism of the right hon. gentleman. Ia that speech the right hon.

gentleman bad shadowed forth many useful and satisfactory changes witbTegard to our military forces. The report of the committee which had been appointed to consider the reorganisation of the Artillery in consequence of the motion be bad brought forward two years ago hail been recently published. The unsatisfactory Teharactr of that report was principally owing' to th fact that th com. chiefly consisted of Horse Guards officials, who ware too main occupied in their own business to be able to devote saSdeat time la the proper conduct of such an inquiry, aad wbeee position deterred officer from being so open to their evidence tbey would be had the committee consisted of altogether disinterested persons. The right hon.

gentleman said that a major ia the Artillery should receive pay equal to that given to a major la tbe Line but that promise had not been fulfilled. The plan for pkeii oT oo a supernumerary list was an admirable oca. A certais number of officers bad been placed oo the supernumerary list, aad ha hoped that th plan would he completed as soon as possible. Kef erring to tbe great number of desertions from the Army, th and gallant geatlemaa said that th cause of desertion should be ascertained with a view of providing a remedy. Of course the' yWsid fact reason 'was the facility with which a mea could desert.

He believed the desertions from tba ArtaUry aad the Cavalry war from the Infantry, and that one of the reasons, especially in the case of tbe Artillery, was the stoppage which were deducted from the' men for the keeping up of their kits, and which wen felt more heavily than by the mn in In fantry, (tiear.) He contended that then ougnt to oe inquiry as to th mod by which a British Army could be put into the field. had absolutely no organisation. If th right boa. gentleman would take the patriotic course of proposing such an inquiry, be believed no one in the House would oppose it Mr. B.

SAUUELSO.V observed that tbe promise riven by the Secretary for War, oa the consideration of the scheme for tbe reorganisation of the 'Arm v. that commis sions should be given to those in the Militia who showed caf abilities lor service In tbe Army, had not been rulttl ed. He thought it was enough it one officer in eaeh Militia. regiment of aix companies obtained a commission in tbe Kejular Anar. Durinc peace we did not want to make Militia I regiments mere schools forth Ilezular A.rmy Militia colonels woom be sorry to and.

tneir beat sunaiterns draughted otf into regulsr regiments as soon as they became efficient. In time of war a vaat number of efficient offieen migbtbe found in the Uilitia, Meanwhile St would be well to keep up the self respect of the Militia by putting an end to tho outward distinctions between them and tbe Regulars wjiea they wen out for training, and tbey should be clothed 'as well as the Li or. He believed that from coutact with the llegulars the Militia dericod (Teat, advantag tbey thereby became better, acquaicted with their Work, and an ttprit dt rorpt grew up among them and put an tnd to the notion tbat their business was simply ia screw as much as. lostible out of the country with the least possible trouble to themselves. The Militia was a very cheap force, and if properly treated would be found during war a valuable nursery for tbe Regular Army.

He wished to know whether the rilit hon. geutleman intended to link together Militia battalions in the same wsy ai lie linked battalions of the Line, and to make promotions go through the two regiments iu tbe same manner Colonel NORTH thanked the right hon. gentleman for tbe changes he bad made with rejjird to the hospital stoppages, which, together with stoppages for barrack damage, produced great discontent in the service. As to desertion, be regretted that Lis right hon. friend Lad nob spoken more strongly with regard to what was now a positive disgrsco to the service, (ii tar, Lear.) lie foretold it.

There never was a greater farce than tbe abolition of branding, tbe result of which was that men now deserted with impunity. What inducement liad tbey to remain in the service In former days' the soldier might look forward to ctiau, but bo bad no auch prospect now, unless be waj a long rer vice man. Another gnat caue of desertion was the system of general service, by which a man was; liable at any time to be taken from the. regiment in which he bad made friemtsandto.be sent eLetvhere. Deaeitions wero rife between 1SG2 7, sad a Royal Couimistion sat upon the sub Ject.

In 1S07, when General "tel was in office, ami 10 yean service men might have claimed their discharge in the following year, he aakod Parliament to vota I'd. a day more, and tbe result was that cf those ucd rejoined tbe Army. Rut then his right hou. friend (Mr. Car will) came into offico with tbo motto of economy, and in 15 months of these soldiers disappeatoJ.

(Mr. Card well. HU right hon. friend had bad many discussions with him on this subject, and could not bring down the numbers to less than 15,000. lie Had no hesitation in saying that in recruitiog one branch of the service from the ranks of another tbe right hou, gentleman bad been following a precedent which bad ended in tbe utter destruction of the French Army.

"The stipulation tbat tbe volunteers should be of a high standard as regards stature and girth took from each rcgimebt soma of the finest men, to the great dissatisfaction ot the officers. As regarded the Reserves be hoped steps would be taken to bring out a large muster of the 7,000 st command in connexion with the next Autumn upon the question of pay bo objected to a deducliou being made when a roan waS on furlough, ss that was the time of all others when a soldier should have his full pay. The right bon. gtelleman stated last year that the artillery majors were to be placed ba a par with infantry majors of tbo Line. On what grounds, then, did they rectivo only lis.

GJ. when infantry majors received 1G. 1 Mr! CHAMBERS said there wen two or three matten which had excited a great deal of public attention, and one of them the greatest anxiety namely, the recruiting of our Army. At one time it was said that recruiting went on admirably, that young mco were at first reJucUut, but that the 'military spirit bad entered them, and' that we were getting almost as many recruits as wa required forsllthe brsncbe of our Army. Then cams the uuhspny sequel, the extraordinary nnmberof had attracted tbe attention not only of military men but of every one who took an iuterest in the state of our Army.

'He wished to know the exact "number ef desertions sod of deserters, for tbe.two were not the same. A young man might enlist in three or four regiments, and desert from every one of them, and in that case the desertions would be many, but the deserter only oce. It was stated that the same exertions and tbe same stringent means wen not now employed for br.ingingdeserters back as in former Some information on that point ousht to be given by tfce right bon. gentleman. To have a large number of desertions was not only melancholy thiug in itself, but was very dangerous to the service.

When young men saw ohn Smith or Joseph Jones living comfortably in a country vil lare after having deserted several times, they would naturally say, We will enlist, and if we don't like the service we will desert, aad then will be no punishment and disgrace on doing so.n Another question wai what inducements did we hold out lo the recruit lie ditLnot speak now of those which Sergeant Kite offered to every recruit namely, that be would be sun to win aFieM Marshal's baton but be wished to know what inducement did we offer beyond tbe common one tbat the recruit would be well cared for His right hon. friend bad used an ambiguous expression with nferecce to stoppages. The soldier, be sait, was to have a clear shilling a day. What did that mean 7 Did it mean that the solaier was to have a clear shilling day which henigbt put in his pocket to uo wnat he lined witn: There wen stoppage for clothing and accoutrements. When men were supplied with boots out of store they wen charged with them iu their accounts as that system to be continued Aldersbott ia summer was oce field of dust; and iu winter of, black mud most destructive to the clothing and accoutrements of olDcers aud tuen.

In going to Aldersbott both officers and men were atterus of neatness, justly admired by the other aex (a laugh) for the smartness sad gaiety of their dress but when they returned froth Aldersbott they presented a very ditlercot picture. They were generally obliged to get new clothing and accoutrements belor tbey could show themselrss on parade. When tba ordinary allowance of.clotbing "and accoutrements' would not serve for the time spent at Aldersbott, the men'should not be mulcted by stoppages cn that account. Again, with refennco to examinations, while be was an advocate for good education, be thought they might, with regard toofficers.raiso the standard too high. He wanted to know what was the conrsoof examination which a Militia officer must undergo before be could get a commission in the Regular Army.

Major WALKElt, referring to the young officers about to pass from the Militia to tho Line, expressed bis gratification at an opening otherwise than by competitive esamina tida being afforded to a class who wen likely to make valuable officers, thoroughly grounded, a tbey were, in the elements o( their As to officers electing to remain in the Militia, he urged the desirability of increasing their efficiency both in numbers and quality. A battalion of Militia bad a very much smaller proportion of officers, especially of the junior rank, than a battalion of tbe Line, though the latter had a much smaller number of men. This was attributable to the abolitiia of Militia ensigos eight year ago, pa account of the Impossibility of filling up the junior ranks but this difficulty, thanks to the Secretary for War, having passed away, the proper quota ought to be restored. The Militia "were entitled to send one officer from the Militia to the Lice for every 100 men cf.the Militia service who, when called uroo, joined the Regulars, which would transfer SOU Militia subalterns to the Line but a long embodiment necessarily led to the retirenfent of some Militia officers, whose places wen filled by the junior nok, and in case of war there was a danger of the Militia Mag denuded of subalterns. If the number of these could not be increased, greater efforts should be made to increase tbeir efficiency.

Tbe right bon. gentleman bad wisely ex Ln.t.t the Militia recruits' wreliminarr drill to three i months, but the officer ou bis sppointment bad simply the i option of idays in the Lino or going to a school ot instruction, with a limited power of sttesding the School of Musketry tue young oiuccr oi uo uuo ijuiwj an cattarrui da riehcua in the mean of instruction. He did not jtsUupate tbat tho depot centres, which tins richtbou gentleman expected to afford Instruction to Militia officers, would give anything but elementary teaching. Tbe schools open to Line should be thrown open tb Militia officers, and be believed such an opportunity would be gratefully embraced. Accepting as inevitable tbe abolition of the old Militia staff, be felt bound to testify from 19 years' experience that they wen a deserving; hardworking body of men, tbe efficiency of tb Militia battalions at the Autumn Manoeuvres being largely duo to their marvellous power" of working up raw material in the shortest possible time.

As to the noa commiuioned Militia officers, some of the best of them bad never served in tbe Line, and having been accustomed to re cngage every five yean until tbey had become unfit for other vocations, be treated that though no precedent entitled them to a pen. sion, tbe right bon. geatleman.would not dismiss them at tbe end of tbalr term without a generous consideration of their claims. He hoped the tew body would Le equally effiicient, though be doubted the ability of.aay regiment of tbe Line provide an entin cadre of nou commissioned offieen for a Militia battalion, especially, as the number inti now fixed at labad been considerably reduced. As compared with tbe old system then was not only a re and be would have to devote lus whole time to two battalions, each stronger than those of the Line, and to the whole of the recruits for the two battalions.

"With respect to the employment of the Militia at tbe Autnutu Manoeuvres, he doubted very much whether they derived toy advantag from it Tbe manoeuvre were very instructive for general aad Staff offieen and, to om extent, for colonels, field officers, and adjutaata, but their actual profit to th soldier was very small indeed. Even re rimes ts of tbe Line were a good cal shaken in tbeir drill by a fortnight so engaged. Thorougbaess and solidity wen what ought to be ought after, and the flashy displaj they witnessed in th autumn wen apt calculated to impart those qualities. Mr FOWLEltjla rising to move the reduction cf the number of men proposed by 10.000, said that duriag the discussion of tb motion of the hon. aad learned member for Oxford the other night, the Trime Minister said it was impossible to have a Committee on the question of' the expenditure of the Army and Navy becaua it would be of no use, aad for thia reason, that it was a qurtioa of aatienal policy, and therefore oa to be settled by the House itself.

It was In consequence of tbat remark of th right boa. gentleman that he thought it right to bring forward tb motion be was about to submit to tb Hoax. Now, what is our wnt mflitary establishment, positively and relatively! In 1SC3 tb number of men viud wa 137,000 in IStO, the number 127,000 1 in 1870, la aad la aa, la, aa xwaaia smmiiwra, mwwn aw including 3,900 included in th gross aszregate, but to com out ot anotaer part ot tb fore. In ISGJ, wnen number was 127,000, th right bon. gentleman sfth bead of the' War Department said, AVith such it force I venture to think this country may be oonsiderl perfectly safe both from attack and from menace." So strongly did tbe Government feel tbe truth of that remark that in the nest year tbey.

reduced tbe force by more than 10,000 men, leaving the eatln number about Now, however, the grots autn ber of tbe Army at home) and la tbe Colonies was 128, and in India making a total of 191.802. But they had at borne, in addition of effective Militia, 123,000 of Yeomanry, 13,000 of first and second class Reserves, and of efficient Volunteers, 100,750, making a grand total of That seemed to him to be an enormous force, considering tbe position in which tbo affairs of the country now stood. (Hear, hear.) Re fore he proceeded further be should like to read a few words from an article which appeared but week in the IeadingJournaL and which atipeared to him to bear out the view no was submitting to the House. It said, Not only is the number of regular troops stationed in this island far greater than formerly, but tbe Auxiliary aad Reserve Forces are called into active and available existence. The process, it is true, has not yet reached a very advanced tace.

but it must 'not be forgotten that whereas the Duke of Wellington asked for 100,000 Militia to place tbe country in a state of defence, we have now more than that number, besides a regular force of 50,000 troop.T We have at this moment mccb more than 50,000. or," con tinum the article, is it to be said that the conditions or possibility of invasion or war would in these days be dif ferent. Nothing baa yet len done to render a maritime ex ldition easier or more practicable than before, and tne dim cutties in the way of passing aa army across tbe Channel in the face of our licet are as great as ever. Nor, as far as we can calculate, would the invading force be more numercut thau it might have been in liitS." These ere very striking words considering the quarter from whence they came, and evidenced feeling' tbat the time bad arrived when, having regard to the present state of affairs in Europr, tbe question ahould be whether our forcea wen cot mere than wen required for the security of tho country. What was our position now as compared with that in which we 'were placed in 1S70, when, on an unfortunate afternoon, a rather excited House voted 20,000 additional troops! (Hear, hear.) A gigantic war was then being waged now peace pnvaili.

Instead of regarding France as our enemy we arc negotiating a Treaty of Commerce with her. In 1870 a great cloud bung over our relations with America. Now that quetdion is settled, aod we hare paid a very high price for having it settled. Again last autumn then arofe fears as to Russian designs in Central Asia. If be might judge by the correspondent before tho House ou the subject, that scare bad been got riJ of and even if it had not been; tbey had G3.000 English troops in India a very considerable force for us to maintain.

But it was said, There is GcT nianv. What may she, not be going to do!" if they wen going to keep pace with Germany in military matters, tbey ought at cuco to vote a Cd. Income Tax sod double tbo strength of tbe Army. We had no cause for anxiety now. Jut after the: Peace of Amiens, when the positiou of England was really one of serious danger, the Secretary for War toll thelionaeof Commons that the total force, including rorimcnts serving in Indis, and counting officers, was men, almost the same number aa the right hon.

gentleman vow bad id' England and the Colonies. I'erhats the population then was leu than it now was, but tne danger was infinitely greater. There wen now 40,000 more troops at borne tban England Lad st a time when Napoleoa was just ou the point of creating that invading force which' afterwards, ou the heights of so much alarm throughout tbe country. But we wen told that the Army must not be reduced because the influence and the honour of tbe Empire must be maintained. Could our honour and influence leiud upon our, having 10.WO troops more or less I As Coleridra bad aaid at a more daneerous period of 'our history, Ocean, 'mid his uproar wild, Speaks safety to his island child." We wen protected by a bulwark far stronger tban any chain of fortifications in the world.

Then, too, ss we had lately seen, great armaments might entirely fail; while, the 'influence of America was great, though she now Lad practically neithei Army nor Navy. We must choose our policy choose either to be strong in tbo consciousness of our own strength without meddling with other people, or double our armaments and add enormously to our Income Tax. He asked tbe Government to go' back to the position they took up in 1570, and to' tbe number of men we then bad. True courage was shown in confessing tbat we desiredpeace and not desire more than the armaments hicti were absolutely necessary for our security. If we were conscious of our strength we ahould not be nxious to paraiie great military forces before the eyes of the world.

Besides, the idea of anybody attacking us was simply absurd, while no one in England wanted to attack auy other nation. We never secure economy ia this country unless we reduced the Military. Estimates. Our Civil Service Estimate must increase, no matter what Committees sat to investigate them. Tbe only effectual economy was by redueinr the cost of our armaments.

The rtgnt non. gentleman migm repiy iuat there were difficulties in the way but reductions bad gone on continuously down to 1370. and why not revert to that point 7 We wen in far less danger of attack thaa at tbat period, aad both for reasons ofpolicyand of finance be thought some reduction loudly called for. Believing that such a reduction might be safely made, and believing that it would be a treat ttini if this country, with its boundless Teaources. would set an example to Europe in this respect, lie begged to move that tne number ot our lanu lorcee oe reduced by 10.000 wen Colonel BARTTELOT said tbst nearly the whole of the arguments of the hon.

member for Cambridge bad been demolished by tbe Secretary of State fcr War, especially that relating to the panic Hon. memben must well rcmem fber being brought dawn one bot day in July to vote an extra 20.0C0 men on the outbreak of war between Franco and Germany, and he would ask the bon. member whether, If he wen able now to reduce, tb Army by 10,000 men before the Secretary of State wa able to obtain his Army of Reserve, they might sot have looking at the stabs of the Continent to vote either next year or tbe year after a greatly number of men. (Hoar.) The present Government came into office as avowed economists, but circumstance had beaten them on that point, and credit ought to be given to that (the Opposition) side of the House, who bad kept up those stores 'of supply and ammunition which a former Liberal Government had allowed to get too low, (liear.) it was 'now, ai ever.a wis and prudent policy to be prepared for war even when you were pursuing a policy of peace. Was the insurance that hon.

gentlemen paid for peace so high at present that they eoaid not afiord to pay it I Were they cot making larger fortunes and carrying on a greater commerce than ever, and was it not more necessary than heretofore to be able to meet every casualty and And ye) bon. members opposite were always raising tbe cuckoo cry, diminish If they wen taken at their word, they would then raise the cry, We an totally Unprepared, and must go to arbitration." The Secretary of State asked for time before diminishing the Regular Army In order to be allowed to paa a certain number of men into a Reserve whom be could lay his band upon whenever they were wanted. Illear, hear.) The Government proposed to reduce tha. AniiT bv 8.410 men. But what wa the Reserve Only men, on whom the Government had to rvly to nil up too vacancies ami casualties ia me ccuvs arar eau of war.

The richt hon. sentleman said be bad cot 21,000 Militia Reserve. Tbat was true bot if be fell back opoa that Reserve he would reduce bis Militia strength to SM.0GO instead of 129,000, the Militia fore that bad got upon paper. The right hon. gentleman said be was against the Militia Reserve because a man could not do two things and serve two roasters.

Mr. CARDWELL. What I said was that if you had a sufficient Army Reserve I should not be enthusisstio for a Militia Reserve, upon the ground that what you gain to the Army you lose to the Militia. But I did not say then, nor do I say new, that I am against the Militia Reserve, because under these circumstances it is extremely valuable. Colonel BARTTELOT said tb rub hoc gentleman of course referred to a Militia Itescrre that wsaailaU.

But when they bail 7,900 men in the Army Reserve and were reducing the Militia Reserve, what became of that enormous host which the bon. member for Cambridge had paraded before the Committee (Hear.) Where; did tbe ton. member propose to make bis reduction Ia the Infantry The battalions were attenuated to 20 liad he ever been to Aldershott or anywhere else 7 (A laugh.) Had he seen tbe number of men on guard, in hospital, as officers' servants, and artificers Would he reduce the scientific branches of the Army the Engineers or the Artillery, which tbe Government had taken so much! trouble to increase or tbe Cavalry, the eves and ears of tbe Army Let the bon. gentleman show toe Committee bow the reduction was to be made. He asserted that no dear case had been made out for.

the reduction. The House, and the country did not wish to have a recurrence of these panics, and, looking at tbe increased population and tb means' of the people, be maintained that they were not overtaxed to provide for the defence of the country. Tbe Secretary of State had done many admirable things, but some thing he had failed to do. How did be account for the enormous amount of desertions which had occurred during1 tb last tWo years I 'Through the energy of aa hoc gentlemsn who sat below the gangway a return cad been ordered of all the desertions since April 1C, 1871, when the practice of marking with the letters and B. was abolished in the Army.

Had the desertions increased or not since thi branding had been done away with 7 In a very gallant re enent, numbering not 547 men but only 417 men, the num rof desertions since April 16, lsTl, was no less than lid (Uesr, hear.) Tbat regiment was second to none fdr its discipline. Th number of men. who bad fraudulently enlisted was 19. How many desertions did th. Committee think bad occurred in tbe same regiment in the two years previous to April, 1871 OnlySL (Hear, bear.) The moral was that men coald now desert with impunity.

A friend of bis, an officer, went tbe other day into a military prison in Dublin, where he saw a man wbo had been dismissed ia ignominy from his own regiment. In reply to a question as to what brought him there, the man said I can't keep out ef trouble I enlisted again, aad here I am." There wer no means of ascertaining tbat that man had been dismissed in ignominy from another regiment. It must to patent to everybody that the right bon. gentleman must tak sorn step to pat a stop to the frizhtful number of desertions now occurrinz. If he were to propose that the practice of mark teg men saouia do rtvrrea would certainly a bowled at by boo.

gentlemen oa the other ski of the House, who would say it was tb height of cruelty and a most, improper thing to do. would, however, icggest that soldiers who were known as or who had been dismissed with ignominy from their regiments, should be placed for a term of years nnder poues supervision ia the same manner to convicted criminals were. At all veat he entreated tb right hen, gentleman to tak tome determined step with a view preventing th number of desertions, which wr a perfect disgrace to the Service, With regard to th discussion oa Monday night, referred to the statement of the Secretary for War that his sheet anchor had failed because a late report showed that tbe mortality in India was not at the rate ef per cent, per annum. The right hon. gentleman candidly admitted that be left out the cholera year bat be maintained that every year of servic in India ought to hav been taken in to scoount.

Mr. CARDWELL. I said that for 10 yean the mortality did not efual 2 per cent, among the troop ia India, whereas th statement which the hon. geatleman made was that it was 31 per cent. I also said that the last year for which then were complete returns, a am el the year 1S7I.

it was below 2 per cent. I added that had not yet recti red complete return far 1872, but I remarked that if we had, it would probably be found tbat tbe mortality had been greattr, inasmuch as there bad been an epidemic In tbe tea years' average every year was iadnded, whether an epidemic prevailed or not, Colonel BACTTELOT said that as epidemics broke out i periodically in India they ought to be taken into aceoual. LBut even ii th mortality was reduced to tbe agar men tioxted by the right hoo.rentletBan.it by no means' followed tbat it migbt not be still lurlter diminished by the adoption of His proposal. (Hear.) With respect to tbe regiment he alluded to the other night, he was aow in a poi tion to state that 17 and 409 men, ami that tbe number of the regiment when it went out was Tte numbers invalided home or to the' Hills wen Officers, IV; non commissioned officers and men, 9LL The figures spoke for themselves, and, indeed, he be lieved that the amount ot mortality and mvaudiee was at least as great aa he stated it 'to be tbe other evening. His opinion was that li yean service in India was a great deal too long.

The right boo. geutleman, however, 'only proposed to keep the bead qoarters ef the regiment there for so lonf a ceriod. He was surprised at tearing the Loe. ami gallant member for Kincardine (Sir U.ltaUour; say that was tbe mea and not tneomctn wbo cared about slaying, because under the short service system the officers would Le kept then aad not tbe men. (Hear, hear.) While on this point be would ask the ruht bon.

gentleman bow long he intended to keep regiments in the Uolonies.Tbe bon. and gallant gentleman next drew attention to the shameful condition ia wbich soUier oa landing ken often in the depth cf winter on their return from IadU a a a.aa lma were uvoany louaii, ana ne snggesicu mat mey saooiu stop a few on tils at Malta or in order that they might become acclimatized, and not be landed here ia the winter month. As to the iatcrchangnbility of officers there eoutd be no difficulty about it when then wen two battalions to. a regiment; but greatvdifficalty must arise in the ease of two regiment with different colours, facings, and traditions. The report delircred this morning recommended that where the regiments linked together retained distinctive colour, tradition, and fac ings me cost or tne neceosary coaage ox aniicrm wnen officers cr men were transferred sLairiJ.

in most cases, be paid by the public Had tbe right 'ton. gentleman any arritre with regard to these linked battalions It might be that be intended hereafter to convert each pair of battalions into a single regiment. Turning next to the question of pay, the hon. asd gallant member referred to a letter ia le Time of tbat morning from a private soldier, who stated that it would le.anderttood that the groceries would still continue to be deducted from tbe shilling. Now, aa there was nothing a private soldier hated so niccn ai not knowing a bat be was about, it was cecrwary that tbo right bon.

gentleman should make a dear explanation on tbis ptdat. As to the Autumn Manaeavres, no doubt they had been most popular with th officers, aad bail proved extremely rueful in testing the virions departments, especially the Control Department, If the right hoo. gentleman' did not waver, but boldly and fearlessly Carried out those principles which he bail brought before tho House, he woutd deserve the thanks of the Army. (Hear, bear.) Mr. HOLMS felt that a.

great responsibility now rested on the Houe in relation to this question. He had remarked tbat the Secretary of State for War in bis able statements always asked whether it was the opinion or the pleasure of the House that such aad such a step should be taken. Tbey ought, therefore, carefully to inquire into all 'the statements that were nude to them. He understood bis hou. friend thei member for Cambridge to desire, not to get rid of 10,000 men, but tbat they should be transferred to the Reserve.

For himself, be had no sympathy with those who came forward to ask at one time that 10,000 orO.OOO mea should be struck off, snd at another time men should bo vlded. Ihey ought to act ou a more business like system, amLif possible, to hav a good Reserve. He believed it was in the power of the Administration to pass those. 10,000 men into tbe Reserve if they chose to do so and in doing it tbey woald not only confer a boon on th 10,000 men, but save an enormous sum of money to ithe country. Evkn if they paid them 20f.

per man, they would effect a large saving by the arrangement, Tbey bad 57,000 turn over years of age. Why, in tbe name of common sense, humanity, or morality, did tbey not allow 10,000 of them to go to their bomcs, taking good security that tbey would come back to them in time of need! That was the ocIt road to true economy. If tbat 10,000 men were permitted to go into the Reserve, aa encouragement would be held out to men in the Army not to desert. What was liie ob ject which the House had ia view in 1870 in reorganizing the Army at every nody was men agreed toat our iirmy was not efficient and tbat it cost wa very extravagant and it wa expected that by and by they would have tower rather than higher Eatiiuate. Tbe boa.

member then proceeded to compare our Army expenditure under the 1'al merston Administration from lSGi 4 to lb(X 7 snd under the Derby Disraeli Administration in 1SC7 8 and 1803 9 with tbat expenditure under tb present AdaueiatratioD, pointing out that tbe Army batimate for the coming jrear were the highest that the present Government bad had, aad also tbe very highest duriqg the last lO jears. Turning to the desertions which bad occurred durinz tbo past year, be asserted that those desertions affected aot Only the efficiency, but tbe. reputation of our Army. Tbe Secretary cf State for War told them that last year o.SCl men bad deserted, of whom had.as the rigbt hon. gentleuian termed it, rejoined; but bow did tbat cotu(r wttb tbe past Li) yean During those 10 years 1,578 bail deserted or an average of Of that number, 19,729 did not "rejoin," but were apprehended and tried, cr per cent.

Tbe present state of tbings in the Army in regard to desertions was most discreditable. From the Pulkt GascUe it appeared that ia ls72 8,471 men wen advertised for, and of tbe 813 wen recruit not yet approved, so tbat 7,603 were men who bad escaped. Tbe reason for the difference between these figures aad those of the right hoc gentleman wa that it was aot until a ma had been absent day that be was reported to tbe War Office and advertised in. th J'olite UaxtU, and if be returned; withio 21 days ha was not regarded by tbe regiment as a deserter acd tried bv court martial, but be was dealt with summarily; The evidence of dissatisfaction was tbat there were more than 7,000 men who did not desire to stay with tbeir regiments, aud therefore left them. From the report of a case recently beard in' tho Woolwich police court, it appeared that soldiers bad discovered a way of leaving tbe army without do sertiog it tbey committed small thefts la order tobe.du tuissed and Mr.

Maude declared tbat that was dearly tbe motive for theft in the cases of the last 30 or 30 soldiers brought before him, the majority being jounzmcn who bad enUsfd before tbey knew their own minds. lhat it was not short service and absence of pensions which caused desertions wa shown by tb fact' out of deserters, 2,954 wen from the Cavalry aad tbe Artillery, which wen long aerviee and pensioned branches. Tbe truth was we had short aerriee without knowing it. for in two yean two cavalry regimectx. numbering together 994 lost 294 men, at which rate the regiments would have been exhausted in six yean and four months, although tbe men wen Kpinsed to serve 12 years.

Compare thi with tba Metropolitan 1'olico Fore of 9,700 men, from which fir men' deserted in 1S7L Our Army ought to be as much sought after by young men as the police force was. Our recruiting could not be regarded aa aatiafctory so long aa we wen taking youths below 17 and 14 now, while the absorbed tbe better class of young men, and kept them cut of tbe regular Army, which was com pdled to fall back oa the refuse of 'too large to Was. Tbe only difference between tbe 7,993 of Reserve o. 1 and tbe 312 of tbe Militia Reserve was that tbe latter got 1. a year more, bat that did not make them aay fitter to be sect out of tb country, thodgh in six years tbey had cost 150, 0UV.

extra. There wen 413 ef them over the age of 33, and 2,005 between 20 snd 33. Wheat in March, 1853, 19.000 oat of GLOCO of tbo Militia volunteered to go to tbo Crimea, we had no Reserve, and did not pay an extra pound, and be did not see why we should pay itnow. lie did not like aoinincl Rcmkvc, Le were only plain Uilitiamen. We had i000 Militiamen, and not; 7,900.

Then ought be presented with th yearly es tim mates an appendix showing the number of men we had on the 1st of January, and their ages, and iciting tha.aame isfonuation respecting tbe Aimy in India on the preceding 1st of November, lie should suggest that ia, place of a medical report for ISTO a few ainiple fjcta should be fnr nished with regard to the sanitary condition the Army, so that the House of Commons loifbt have a dear view of its position, both ss to qualify and to quantity. Mr. BRAND thought the House, aad th country were greatly indebted to the right hon. gentleman the Secretary for War for the manner in which be. had carried oat his scheme bf Aimy reorganization.

Mor did be by any means despair that the officers of tbe Army themselves would in course of time be brought to feel that tbe Government ia pioposio; that scheme were actuated by.no desire of inSiet tug injustice oa thctu as imliVidaals. The fact, be might add, tnat there bad in one year been more than 4,000 desertions from tb Army wsj very startling; but it was one which was comparatively satisfactory when it was taken into account that tLe desertions' bad in some quarters been set down at as figure as 8,010. The Secretary for War had quoted a remark made. by General MDgugall committee, to the effect tbat the number of desertiot might be accounted fcr by the reaction consequent, on the undue excitcmect cf the Franco German War, while the hoo. gentleman wbo had just sat down sought to show that they wen a sign that the Army wa unpopular throughout th country.

It should, however, be borne in mind that tbere wen a great many men wbo deserted from oo regiment to anotber, while be agreed with tb hoo. and gallant member for Weat Sussex in thinking that if in the ease of habitual desertions some ajatecn of supervision were established, desertions would be fewer, and to country would be put in tbat respect to less expense. It at however, Ly auch proposals as those of the Secretary for ar.by iacrcaa ing the pay oi the Army and by holding out to the men th chance of obtaining civil employment, that desertion could after all best be prevented. As to recruiting, be should Lke to know what was tbe real a at which recruits wen enlisted. He had heard that a great number of young men aow "joined the Anoy between the age of 1C and 17, and if tbat wen so we should in the coarse of a Tery short time have an Army composed entirely of young boys.

Tbe question of enlistment was too large a one to dtscacs st that boor, but the right bos. gentleman would, in his opinion, have perfect! bis system with greater ease if he had not attempted to reconcile the irreconcilable to garrison India sisd to form aa Army of Reserve at home under the same system, aad endeavouring to keep tbe Militia aide braid with th Regular Army and ia coupe titioa with it. There might, possibly, be good reasoea why we showld aot keep the Indian Army istioct; bot than coald be no such reason wy a Militia establishment should be kept up aid by side with the Regular Army. (Hear, hear.) indeed, coald be plainer than that it was th 'Opinion of GenexaC M'DougslTs committee that toe Militia was sot a laros to be relied oa tor. isrsiga asrrieav Ik was said that the Regular Staff of the MQiiaa being merged in the local depots, recruitlag was carried on side ly side with th Regular Amv, and that the Mihtia ctEeer wen anxious to pass their men oa to it.

But those oSerTS were animated by aa ctprildegrpt a well aa the RegnUrs, tk.fr m.a tho best, aad the system, at all events, was a very expensive mode of reft emiting tbe Regular Army. He hoped when the scheme i was perfected the Militia weald to rrdaally reduced to zero. leaving sokly the Regular Army and the Reserves to be relied 1 a rryari to the motion of the hon. member for Cam i I bnage. ne aasanea men mixni oe a usnNbiro u.

part of boa members tomato things conf ortahle all rotovl, and to enable tbe Income tax or tbe. Malt doty to le lowered or repealed by reducing our establishments tct.lt tbe same thought hoa.mealrs were bound to look what the defence of the country required. Tbe hoo. member for Camlrs'ge wai wrong in comparins I tba intimates of the present year with' tho ef 1570, because be would find that ever since the Crimean sr and lit India tiere naa oeen a growing ttesire ontb part of the country to increase ear available fore at Lome, and to maintain oar total force, inclusive, vt our Indian and Home forces, at a strength ia time of peace ef about 200,000 men. At the present time we had about G3.000 men ia India and 9 000 at home, and he eocJd not agree with tke hon.

member for Cambridge that these numbers ousht to be reduced. It was urged that we had at present men torn than we bad ever had before ia this coaniry.and that therefore the Estimates should be red need, but those, who osd this argument appeared to ferret that wnen we bail a number of troop in our Colonies they wen available for service in all parts of the idobe. still owed our Colonies assistance and protection, aod it mast not be forgotten bow recently war had swept over the. Continent and bow nearly had been involved in a drrnats with Russia. In conclusion, he most remind the bon.

member for Cambridg that tbe increase in the prefect Estimatee over those cf 1870 was entirely due to the improved efficiency of our Artillery and military organization, aad that it would be scarcely wise after we had expended so much in perfecting an elaborate machine to throw the machine away as use Irs, because we grodred tb expense of keeping it in repair. (Hear.) Sir G. EALFOUR thought oar force ia India bad beea reduced for financial, and net for military reasons. Mr. PEASE remarked that tba saving on the Army Estimates on which the right bon.

gentleman congratalated himself was counterbalanced by toe increased expenditure ca our naval force. A few years ago the Secretary for War boasted that Le bad saved upwards cf on tbe Army be asked wkether tbat reduction of expenditure wai attended by a diminution of efficiency. Be fere tbe right bon. gentleman sat down he clearly proved his case that the efficiency ef tbe Army had not been dim i aished. The right boo.

geatleniaa oa that occasion tokl the House tbat the Arm was adequate for all purpose, aod he spoke of ths evil of Laving a larg number of troops unemployed at home. Oa the out of the Franco German war a force of 143,001 was asked fcr. He (Mr. Bease) and many others protested agaicst so large a force, and the Prime Minister explained that the then state of things required that we should have a large The Estimates fcr 1S70, it was said, wen oely transit tioa1 Estimates, but it would now appear that the transition was to go on while generations of men were passing away. (Hear.) Of what avail were the reorgazdzatloa of the Army sod the abolitioa of purchase if the expenditure oa tbe Army was not to be reduced What was the use of a policy; of arbitration if it was to be kept up by a policy of large military expenditure Believing, that it was a great evil to this country to maintain a large army la a time of peace, he would gladly vote for the amendment of the bon.

member for Cambridge Sir J.rAKIKGTOX moved that th Chairmsa should report progress. (Cries Go Mr. CARDWELL said be would net orpose tbe motion. The Committee divided with the following result For reporting progress 139 Against 33 Majority for reporting progress 12C Trogress was accordingly reported, and tbe House resumed. Mr.

WINTEREOTnAM obtained leave to bring ia a Bill to discontinue the office of Commissioners of Salmon Fiaherie ia England. The House adjourned at a quarter past 12. PARLIAMENTARY NOTICES. HOUSE OF LORDS. Furur, Fib.

23. oanaas or rua xur. MUTs faietit B3, Hecuaid nwdiat. fUUna Utstrlcu tfrsUaU) tall, rewaa rea Una HOUSE 07 COMMOXS, Tkivax, fm. 28.

ouaaa raa par. Sopo'y, Co odu. Lands Urtlaad ftwrblooal Oruers (So. X) BUL ScessMt riw4a. War and Commlttre.

CuatolT oi UtaaU Hd OBeaaftarSV. UaiuaUUa tbelandl iail. tii twee. Otxsnosa. air.

CCIJb, Toast If rbrtattal tas'AoSstwd eapttal ponisha.at. an tbat has rained a dUScwltv ia SHSiac an extraJltioa Treaty. Dr. Iwewcr, To ask tae dactvtanr toe War wbeiher aay nieana aarc, teentaSenlM Iniwdnae rws lisl ateassn for tb prwcmtlcn oi tcta Iato tb mti'wt. r.

hUpuxi. Tn ask notioo wiia rttVrmae a pararapa whicb aa. arprand la svseral paper, enpciwnsing that a KrtntiaaaaUeusBd ta aid Uk um its atajMSj Oaulc VlLofSnin. Mr. sTrkra.

TeMkaq'MsUM with rararene to three Tramwar. Bills intxodnc! Itualiiadao. wtdcasek sowers foe tt ecmpanUr ta work tram wy "wttk ether tbsa saiinal sow. Mr. Artaar tea, Te sak whether tt Uvathat If Is tb lntatia ot Uw lrU el ta Adiairaitf to aevniat a ssoeral piwetttMWrr to tak medtcai eiiart tb 5atal Colce sably ionned atUfea1ea UespltaL git To sak a oneation as to a suxvej ot tbe Straits cf MaAdlUk Mr.Uslnc ToakwhtaU Itttha: Cotti umesit wm ftrtt fo fxrnscd of tht adnnursoeat mumI If V.iut'm ot tmtk7 in tbe VaZry lb Aunt.

uJ If Li MrUlnh imImckt Xhm Cucxt rVnUncsl t.d ta ib onus Into ih the aha had addreaswl fiiaiantoUi OuiMttt ot Uussti. by wf.kfl the latter wa eaaiJed to acqua' trrri lurv on tt Becthrta lobda7 el.lsrma. Mr. llamtra Toast qncstuwa tclctlf teseamen lJooaio the late stransatp rent, said ta bow naOersoia In DvnJicskr Cans' seaiMioe tf tattsnuorit wkh bant tefcmsr for ntmtni ta to" la that st.lc, aJVgtd Lar osudid a awa two Cars aCtcr tsaris bftd haslxMW. Ma Ll.

To aak whtthrv tb Uadhc snwiBiItte ot th CrtinX AaMuUv el tkm trlali llshrtrrUa Church cn Use sobjecl if Triaiijr f4a he eaetiHiHuas! tu the Ucnenuueal lLLc iks ca the Irisb Valsasltr Kdmtiua Lid. aortrxs or atorroaa. Mr. Xaadrila, Bin to the isotectias ot ehlUrea eiafast pcmris la. saarsol ttewa who hae bees eoaricted el acts ot penuoal sin! win saiot thrmi Mr.

OkSicrmi, AdJter lor anff el aH eofrespcadeaeo wtta ear Muiuter as Trhcraa rtUvrt to tbe XmsisukiB bf Koada ot tsTriiorr la tfcs1yof tbeAttrtk lalSS. WO. aa.1 I31L Mr. ti lUad. That the fcct CsataHsle est Cbntaainss UvrasM iotunfl ot 10 Uftaten air.

W. K. Tattler, lufl It. Xwta Mr. MoouM.

Mr. ttfcCrr. Mr. DoJ on. hit It.

gli It Kl o. Mr. Jaeoh Ma fed, Mr. J. Sarelaf.

Mr. KaTasaft. Mr.Utaf, Mr. Mr. CaUaav Mr.

Tlcvla, Vr. Leak. ill. W. JohasB.

Ut.Wnoar, Mr. Xiwwood. and Mr. II. lit.

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fawl tareosh to Ibe Meditsr rwuii. The Uriamaa, Waltlcf as Yon tmiA to pus through. T4 Unaatfaboo Xavt, tb Temascnai. act tb St. Greer.

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bort cf praeielawsv I Caaviazxix. Trb. and XT. Tb Arraeaa snd tbe MiBrcck. fruu amnhA th GeUfsh.

frees JaMMc the tlewtfatta, from luul Biter th Cnjsaiia ion. Maldila tbe nutrs, boa fccMh baae tnaMoairum Aah, bora baU iUf tbe Yletorta. sSeaaier. boos CutbciiUirs the CUf CerUn.trosa Csicwtta 4be rrserth, fioas MaUa tbe Ida. froos Leghorn tbe Oeta.

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Tbe Chariaa ilnno Tl.ln II At ErU Arrattre. trooi Vutn tk btrphloo tl rrora MiriaaoU. aUssLyeb.Maad a Tb CaJaxVla, troos Taaxo ib 8Ula.rroaeei tbe AaasMjeaasee TWtajoa, bera Suuuu tbe Caiwa rkea frera Alexandria the HCarrte. ssaaatex; fro Odessa tb Meiao Omsb It 1h rti ta1 III aslsslt tintk bora TaSkWe tb Onsra, boot BCbao. aprwya aaa Uoett.

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i rI ihaWB. i for Ms'ta the Hob. IWrlXasaL Daat. rh. a.

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th Mkterva, aUaaser. be Ceaoa tb JTs lew, for lftitnstnl Weo.latrt. fur Asefclaad tha lla. for Marer. trvxarooi.

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for Tonssdtas th MOsa, tor lsaarsB th Maa wnaaaaa taeurty ot Aalwn riienn, eoca iw aniBx ur Eaoa bowk, tor Jtio Jinctrq ia CaA" Caflaa tb Qaeaaatowa. forkSo Jaaeire. mail WATXSt AT UnUX 2aUXX2X ZHS ZbaZ. at tsam.Qrtl Aftaninna Ss ads..